PSA Crash in 1978
Many people don’t know that San Diego was the site of a terrible airline crash in 1978 — PSA Airliner Crash
On Monday, September 25th, San Diego was the scene of the worst air disaster, to date, in the United States. A mid-air collision between a Cessna 172 and a Pacific Southwest Airlines (PSA) Boeing 727 caused both planes to crash into the neighborhood below. A total of 144 lives were lost including 7 people on the ground as well as the two people in the Cessna light aircraft. More than 20 residences were damaged or destroyed. The fire went to Fourth Alarm status, committing 60% of the on-duty force of the Department as well as several outside agencies who also responded. Droves of off-duty firefighters voluntarily reported back to their assigned stations or to the crash scene to help where they could.
Here’s the record on AirDisaster.com (and can you get a more grisly website than that?), and be sure to check out the Special Report on PSA flight 182
This page includes cockpit voice recorder data as well as comments from visitors to the site who claim to have lost friends and loved ones. Heartbreaking stuff. And this page has photos of the dead.
San Diego Magazine ran an extended piece in 1998 on the disaster, and the aftermath.
Pieces of the Cessna, with its two-man crew, crashed at 32nd and Polk streets in the heart of North Park, an eclectic mix of shopkeepers and working-class residents, a few miles from the San Diego Zoo. Ground zero for PSA’s 150,000-pound 727-214 was Dwight and Nile streets, just west of Interstate 805, only 3 nautical miles northeast of Lindbergh Field. Flight recorder data showed the collision happened at 1 minute, 47 seconds after 9. Flight 182’s impact with the ground was documented 3/10ths of a second past 9:02. From resounding collision to fiery aftermath, the elapsed time was just 13 seconds.
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dave said on Wednesday, June 16, 2004, 19:17
Now that was a bad day
ivan jurado said on Wednesday, June 16, 2004, 23:55
Joe,
I found out about this crash about a month after I moved into my new house… about two blocks away from the crash site. If you visit it now, you can see the houses that have been rebuilt and don’t quite match up with the others. Pretty scary.
Tom Leitch said on Saturday, July 31, 2004, 2:56
I was a member of a bereaved parents group back in the late ’70s. One of the members lost his son on that flight.
He lost a second son in another mid-air collision a few years later over Belle Isle in the Detroit River. He was a chopper pilot for the Detroit Police. Imagine the odds of losing two sons in mid-air collisions.
Jose Kirchner said on Sunday, August 1, 2004, 13:06
My friend and one-time colleague, Nellie Jackson, was on that flight, leaving her teenaged daughter surviving her. Nellie flew PSA182 SMF РLAX РSAN routinely, to work. My cousin Flint died on LANSA flight (9 Aug 1970) departing Cuzco, Per̼, overloaded, poorly maintained and badly flown when an engine was lost on takeoff, for Lima. Two for nothing, pilot errors; 241 more lives lost.
floyd varley said on Monday, August 30, 2004, 15:07
My sister, Maureen and her 8 year old son Jimmy were on that flight. They left behind a 3 yr old daughter//sister Jennifer and Maureen’s new husband James Gallagher in Bakersfield. Avery tragic day for our family. My Dad and Maureen weren’t speaking because she had divorced – he never got a chance to make up for that.
terry wangler said on Wednesday, October 13, 2004, 18:31
i was an 18 year old marine recruit at the sandiego recruit depot sitting on the obstacle course looking directly in the air at the 2 planes as they collided and exploded into a ball of flames and crashed into the homes on the hill over looking the base. there was absolutely nothing i could do to stop it or worse to help anyone involved. the drill instructors made us go directly into the squad bay and keep busy squaring away our gear.we thought we were going to have to go help the rescue squads or something but we never got the chance and had to read about it in the sunday paper. i still can see it in my mind as if it happened yesterday. i am now married and have a teenage daughter it is definately the worst thing i have ever seen. i wish that i could get in touch with anyone that was at the marine or navy base that day in 1978. if you know anyone please have them contact me at c.wangler@mchsi.com or send a letter to terry wangler 3215-18th ave. moline illinois 61265 thanks and god bless.
Brian SSaffer said on Thursday, October 28, 2004, 20:10
I was 14 watchin my dad work at a local firestone store. I heard the explosion muffled and everyone was running into the street. We saw the debris from the cessna floating like tinsel from the sky and we had no idea what had happened until we heard it on the radio over the next few days. It was quite a month after the crash seeing the footage of north park on the local news. I remember this as part of my memories as a kid growing up. Prayers for those who lost their lives that day. And for those they left behind. Brian
SCOTT said on Sunday, May 28, 2006, 20:05
I in the Navy on a westpac out of San Diego at the time. I didn’t have any realatives in San Diego but alot of the other guys did. Things were really tense for a long time and the Navy kept us updated on the situation. No one from my ship lost anyone thankfully.
Tom Nelson said on Tuesday, July 4, 2006, 0:15
I was stationed at Fighter Town at the time.
I still have, on cassette, a news bulletin broadcast on a San Diego radio station about efforts for blood donations and other information, that I recorded at the time.
George Biedenbender said on Wednesday, August 2, 2006, 13:09
On that day I was with the rest of our Recruit Series at MCRD San Diego when one of the recruits yelled out, “look that plane is going down.”
On my way home that evening (vicinity of 50th and University, a flurry of activity was ongoing up and down University Ave.
Rex Ralls said on Monday, August 14, 2006, 1:20
I had just gotten out of the navy the day before the flight accident. My wife and i lived at Illinoise street in a apartment. We were crossing the desert that night because of heat . the next mourning my wife was frantic calling her friends who lived in the apartment complex alas the phone lines were out.I cant tell you how many times I thoght of those people…. . we never did make contact.
Dan Barnes said on Wednesday, August 16, 2006, 16:26
So many wonderful people were lost on that flight including a sweetheart of a woman I was dating Flight Attendant Gail Shapiro.. It was not supposed to be her flight that day but her roomie caught a bug so Gail took her flight..I still have a place in my heart for Gail….God bless All
Pam said on Wednesday, August 16, 2006, 19:05
I was a PSA employee at the time of the crash. I was stationed on the ground at LAX. I had my $1.00 one way ticket for that flight to visit my best friend who lived in Imperial Beach. I went down there almost every week, since I could fly for $2.00 roundtrip! I went out with my future husband on our first date on the night before the flight. I was sick with bronchitis and decided at the last minute that I wasn’t up for the trip that week. I have been traumatized for life over this crash. I should have been on that plane. Many co-workers and even my boss Bob Benner and his wife were on the flight. Such a devastating loss. My life was forever changed that very day.
I think of how very lucky I was that day to be sick! I have a sever fear of flying to this day. I have flown recently, but it never gets any eaiser.
Lisa said on Friday, August 25, 2006, 13:44
i was 6 years old at the time. i was staying with a friend on dwight st (about 2-3 blocks from point of impact). we were swinging on a tire swing in the backyard when we heard what sounded like a firecracker followed by an explosion. its difficult to describe what i felt. the only thing i can relate it to is taking off in an airplane…heh…just incredibly powerful. my friend’s mom came running into the yard to pull us inside. the alley behind the house filled with thick black smoke. the smell was horrible, like burning plastic, hot metal and fuel. i remember seeing a piece of what must have been a seat in the airplane with the upholstery partially melted off. it looked like skin. I still remember the neighbors screaming, the sirens, the smoke, the incredible heat, my friend’s dad speaking of “pieces of bodies on the street”. the evening was spent candlelit in the living room next to the radio. i have been in airplanes since then, but its always a guaranteed panic attack. sometimes i am still unable to actually get on the plane. i still see that melted seat, so out of place, sitting on the sidewalk of dwight st.
Amancio Elizaga III said on Thursday, September 21, 2006, 15:55
My dad Amancio Elizaga Jr. was a flight attendant on that flight 28 years ago. I did not know him, I was only 5 months old. I think of him often. I don’t think I’ve ever really gotten over his tragic death. He was so young with his whole life ahead of him, he left on this earth his wife, my mom (Aleta), my sister Amanda (not yet 2 years old at the time), and me and countless friends and relatives.
Steve said on Thursday, October 5, 2006, 20:51
I had caught a couple of hours sleep in the back after working a grave shift at the 7-11 at Princess View and Mission Gorge Road. When I came out front Rick said, “A PSA jet just went down over North Park.” I went outside and the smoke plume was visible, rising over what from our vantage point was the plateau of North Park.
About one hour later a PSA flight attendant ( I think we still called them stewardesses in those days ) came into our store. It was so strange that this would happen on this particular morning. Rick and I looked at each other, then looked down. The young woman came up to the counter and purchased a couple of items. No one said a word. . . we barely made eye contact. It was so unspeakably sad, more so I think because San Diego was, in those days, so much smaller.
The whole city was in mourning. It seemed to me that all of that day was hushed. PSA had been just a huge part of San Diego, and all of those lives lost, both in the air and on the ground.
In the evening I went out to eat. It was so quiet. This wasn’t just my perception, it really was very quiet in the restaurant, everyone silent or speaking in hushed voices.
It really was like a little piece of all of us died that day. . .that’s the only way I can describe it. When something happens right there; right in your city. I think it helped me understand the reaction of the New Yorkers to 9/11.
Andrew Valencia said on Thursday, October 5, 2006, 22:53
I was named after Andrew Martin, the owner and pilot of the cessna which collided with the PSA. He was flying to San Diego to meet with my father and address a board meeting on that tragic day. My father was at the office waiting for him to call from Brown Field Airport, and found it unlike Andy to be late. He then called my godmother at their home in Malibu to confirm his flight schedule, at that moment he heard on the radio, two planes collided and crashed over North Park. There was dead silence over the phone and denial that he was dead.
Andy Martin is survived by his wife, two beautiful children, and godson. His loss devestates us to this day. He is in our thoughts and prayers.
Emily Sedgwick said on Wednesday, October 25, 2006, 18:25
I had recently moved to Spring Valley from the Los Angeles area. I was actually getting ready to make a trip back up to LA. My house had a panoramic view of the city to the west from a hill. I had just walked out to my car to load up a couple of things and looked out over the horizon. I saw an incredible mushroom cloud of black smoke – just like a bomb had gone off, and the mushroom was still rising. I could not believe my eyes. Of course from that distance I did not see anything but the smoke, but it was clear that something horrible had happened. I immediately turned on the radio and heard what had happened. I remember the staging area at St. Augustine’s. I remember feeling terrible helpless and not knowing what to do. It was something I never will forget. I remember later an acquaintence I had at the time told me she had been driving through North Park when it happened. She said she ran a stop light accidentally, and that if she had not done that she would have been killed for sure because the jet went down behind her. I can’t even imagine that. It was a horrible day for all San Diegans.
michelle said on Thursday, November 30, 2006, 14:05
i was in the 7th grade and it was over 100 degees outside and the school let everyone out because of the extreme heat (of course for san diego that is). at that time is when the planes went down, seeinng that i lived about 10 mins drive time away from there and that my step dads family lived in that area i still to this day (11-30-2006) cant get it out of my mind. have also never seen before or after clean up of the site of impact.
Renay said on Sunday, January 21, 2007, 15:18
The crash happened a day before my birthday. I was in the 7th grade and we were having half days from school because of the heat. Hoover High was being used a a morgue and that crahs changed North Park forever.
Jason J said on Wednesday, May 9, 2007, 17:10
I have lived in this county for most of my life, but was only 3 years old and not living in the county at the time of this crash. I don’t know why, but I’ve been obsessing over this flight for a few weeks now. I live in Normal Hts., almost exactly under where the collision occurred. I have since read everything there is to read about this flight. I even visited the corner of Nile and Dwight. There is an empty lot just south on Nile (near Dwight and the 805). I wonder if that was where the plane impacted first. Newer pearly-white (eerie) buildings now occupy the impact area. The houses in that neighborhood were built in the 20s and 30s so it is easy to see the trajectory.
It is obvious that the pilots had lost their fear of flying by the CVRs. Pilots should always have some small fear of flying in them so that they will be extra cautious when necessary. You never think it’s gonna happen though. None of us do. They took the whereabouts of the Cessna much too lightly. Aside from the fault of the PSA crew, that Cessna should not have been able to fly anywhere near the commercial routes. What a mistake. Now I have to be freaked out when I look at the faces on the flight 182 memorial page. People forever stuck in their 1970s styles, most of them in their youth. It was an attractive goup of people, including some women who appear to be knock-outs: A Lisa Davis, a Karen Borzewski, a Gayle Shapiro, and a Dee Young. Very sad. Even 29 years later. Maybe it’s especially sad because it was so long ago, because people forget. May they rest in peace and may their friends and relatives be comforted. I think that the only thing that we can take solace in here is that they only had about 10 seconds of fear, maybe even less before the impact. Perhaps some thought they were merely going in for an emergency landing, and hence, never felt any fear.
Dylan Gold said on Wednesday, May 16, 2007, 4:30
This plane crash is a vivid childhood memory of mine and I recall that day often, even today. It holds a special distinction in my mind as being the very first event I truly remember clearly, in my life… I was 4 1/2 years old, and while nearly all events of that time have long since faded, the day a passenger jet fell from the sky and exploded 6 blocks away from my pre-school playground remains lucid. Us kids were standing on the blacktop at the YMCA on Landis and the old 15/805 merge, in the canyon to the east of the impact site. There was a very loud collision overhead, causing all of us outside to look up, only to see the plane with its wing on fire falling to earth, and the enourmous black cloud that appeared therafter. I can remember my parents being quite distraught as we went home early from school that day. Later on, my mom gave me colored pencils and told me to draw what I had seen. To this day she still has those drawings of burning planes and a 4 year old’s rendition of bodies and mass casualties. For some reason I dont know, all the people in the drawings are smiling, yet laying on the ground amidst fire and smoke and wreckage. We still have the news clippings from the Tribune, as well as the follow up story years later about the Hans Wendt and his experience then and since. I spent the next 7 or 8 years living there and watched that very location heal itself as I grew up. While that was as bad of day as any neighborhood could have, and while I could not grasp the gravity of the situation at the time, I feel very fortunate to have grown up in that exact location, and it will hold a special place in my heart forever.
joe said on Wednesday, June 13, 2007, 15:38
why build houses where is the site of the crash… to me the best solution could be build a monument… we musn’t forget this day… okay now I live in France but it’s not a reason…
but the most important thing it’s don’t forget them…
Rich said on Saturday, June 23, 2007, 4:10
We were among first p.d. units on scene,still see it in my head. Later in the afternoon had to stop a man &wife,2 kids with lunch basket “going to see crash”. lucky for the kids they didn’t get to see it.
Gary said on Sunday, June 24, 2007, 17:06
I attended an FAA “Wings” seminar yesterday and one of the speakers was Wally Funk, one of NASA’s Mercury 13 women. After NASA refused to let her go into space, she became an accident investigator for the NTSB and in yesterday’s presentation, she touched on the fact that she was the first, and for two or three days the ONLY, NTSB investigator on the scene of the PSA/C-172 crash.
I had gone to hear about astronaut training from a women’s perspective, but once she mentioned the San Diego crash, all I could do was to think about that Boeing 727 running into the 172.
I was an Air Traffic Controller at the time of the crash, working in Tulsa, Oklahoma, and I remember the knee-jerk reactions of the Press and the U.S. Congress. There were immediate, and not very well thought-out, plans to create Terminal Control Areas in all San Diego (and Tulsa) sized areas to make sure that all planes when flying in the vicinity of the airports associated with such cities were in direct contact with Air Traffic Controllers “…so that this type of accident would never happen again.” The fact that the 727 and the Cessna 172 were both in contact with controllers at the time of the accident seemed to somehow escape the notice of those who were proposing this solution.
What really got to me so many years ago was a “Time” magazine article on the crash. There was a flight instructor on board the Cessna and when he died, he left behind a fiancé, someone I’d known from the previous year when she herself worked as a flight instructor at Spartan School of Aeronautics in Tulsa. In 1977, she had lost her father, an executive with Beechcraft, and now I was reading in that “Time” article that she’d lost her fiancé too. A distant crash suddenly came much closer to home.
Seven years after the crash, no longer an Air Traffic Controller, I was working in Southfield, Michigan with a co-worker who was from the San Diego area. We got to talking about the crash and I learned that he had dated one of the flight attendants on the PSA jet.
It’s funny — I don’t know that I personally know anyone who was directly affected by the Oklahoma City bombing, or by 9-11, but I keep running into people who were very much involved with, or very much affected by the PSA/C-172 crash.
kev1979 said on Monday, June 25, 2007, 5:29
i never heard abot this crash until i was watching faces of death.I wanted to see if this was authentic so i got info from film and looked it up.It was true.It is sad to see all the gruesome pictures on the film.Also sad,is the fact that these terrible things happen quite often.Death is truly a great mystery for the living.None of us know anything about it.To go in a terrible way like that tho,with no warning or notice has to be the worst.
Ronn said on Tuesday, June 26, 2007, 9:18
I was 10 years old when this accident happened. I grew up here in San Diego and will never forget how it made me feel. Today, I have never been able to fly without the fear of it happeneing again. My prayers go out to all those who had to say good-by to those they loved.
Anne Robinson-Todd said on Friday, June 29, 2007, 10:44
I was a teenager when flight 182 went down. The impact hit 2 blocks from our home. My family was some of the first on the site to try to help any survivors. I was in high school and I remember our teacher saying, “planes just don’t crash in neighborhoods”. It took eternity to get home that day to see if my family on the ground was still alive. I will never forget the devestation when I walked down the street. Empty city blocks that were once homes where I use to play. My family left the area shortly there after because the memories were too much to bare. We prayed for the people over and over again and we still have trouble comprehending what really happened. I am 44 now and just thinking about this brings it all back. Maybe I will visit the site some day and see the new changes to try to erase the memories of the flat, concrete blocks where the houses use to be. That is what’s burned into my mind. Maybe that will heal my visions. God bless all those that tried to help and those that died on that day.
Robert said on Monday, July 23, 2007, 4:16
I was in ninth grade at El Cajon High on that day. I remember the Santa Ana and when the news reached our class room. The teacher announced the accident and then still tried to teach. When class was over I went out to the field to see the smoke but could’nt because of hills in the way. The ensuing news reports did’nt bring the event home as much as seeing the site some months later.
AJ said on Monday, July 23, 2007, 11:00
I work at the San Diego Airport,everyday when I drive by the area,I think about that day. We are now coming up to the 29 year. Let’s ALWAYS keep the one’s that where lost that day in our Heart’s. I may have not known anyone that day.
Vasili said on Thursday, July 26, 2007, 12:39
Well, that things happen.
Andy said on Saturday, August 4, 2007, 12:47
i was 15 at the time and had been let out school because of the heat. Me and some friends were just sitting on a small hill talking and laughing. We were just innocent teenagers and while we were looking up at the sky we saw a distinct black figure which was the PSA plane coming closer and closer to a smaller plane.We were just starig not knowing what was about to happen when all of suden we see flames and the two planes clip eachother. We saw the smal plane head straght down while the bigger plane had flames all over the right wing. We saw as the plane suddenly jerked downward and began its descent towards the neighborhood down below. We heard a very loud BOOM and the plane crashed with flames and ball of fire go straight up. WE screamed and cryed not fully understanding what had just happened when we realized that some of our other friends were living down where the plane crashed seconds ago. I will never forget the sound of that plane crashing.
Bob said on Friday, August 10, 2007, 11:20
That day fate found me sitting in my car at the 40th and University Ave. stop light. I had just dropped my then fiance off at work and was headed to my work. When I first saw Flight 182 it was headed east. (downwind) I watched it for a moment as it glistened in the morning sun. I briefly turned my attention back to the street lights. Right then is when I saw the fireball (which turned out to be the Cessna) I sat and watched in shock as the jet went down just a couple of blocks away. I raced to the scene to help in any way I could and wound up helping one homeowner at the initial impact point move his belongings out of his burning house.
When Flight 182 went down there was a song playing on my radio at that very moment… “Reminiscing” by the Little River Band. Whenever I hear that song today I shudder and remember everything I witnessed that fateful day.
Glenn Howard said on Sunday, August 19, 2007, 2:22
I grew up very close to the nieghborhood where this crash occurred. I would take a short cut throught this nieghborhood on a daily basis to visit my friend right around the time this terrible accident happened. I was on my way to my friends house and I recieved a call form my boss that he had my pay check, so I redirected my journey traveling north to the Miramar area noticing a very large fire in my rear view mirror later to find out that a PSA jet had crashed into my old nieghborhood. I have several friends that are fire fighters and were called to the accident. One of my fire fighter friends was going into houses to make sure no one was inside and said he walk into the living room and noticed the stereo system had completly melted down. He said it was an inferno and it looked like war. The other comments he made were to gross to share. It was a terrible day!
KB said on Sunday, September 2, 2007, 2:21
I was 18yr at the time. I recall newscasters crying on the air trying to tell what happen. Telling about body parts all over the place. A very sad and shocking day. Even though I grew up in SD, I have never been down that street. I do recall being close by that week to pay respects but could not go down the street.
I don’t know why all of this came to mind today. One of my children asked about planes –out of the blue. Almost 29 yrs later since the accident. I could not recall why PSA went down so looked it up and now the images are once again vivid in my head.
DEBBIE said on Sunday, September 2, 2007, 14:12
IT WAS TERRIBLE, I DIDNT SEE IT…. I FELT IT, I THOUGHT IT WAS AN EARTHQUAKE AT FIRST,UNTIL I LOOKED OUT THE WINDOW THEN I HEARD HELICOPTERS,SIRENS ETC. I STILL DIDNT REALIZE THAT IT WAS A PLANE CRASH I THOUGHT MAYBE A GAS MAIN HAD BLOWN OR SOMETHING,TIL A NEIGHBOR SAID THAT THERE WAS SOME PEOPLE OVER THERE GETTING CLOTHES AND JEWERLY FROM THE DEAD PEOPLE AND THEIR LUGAGGE/CLOTHING WAS STREWN EVERYWHERE.IT WAS REVOLTING!! I WAS TWO SHORT BLOCKS AWAY FROM THE CRASH AND I THANKED GOD BUT I FELT SO BAD FOR MY NEIGHBORS..BUT WAS SO GLAD IT WAS AFTER MORNING RUSH OR IT WOULD OF BEEN WORSE.THEY BLOCKED OFF OUR NEIGHBORHOOD..AND MY HUSBAND WHO WAS AT WORK CAME RUSHING HOME BUT SINCE WE HAD JUST RECENTLY MOVED HE HAD NO ID TO GET IN AND ENDED UP GETTING IN A FIGHT WITH SOME OFFICER TO GET IN, HE MANAGED TO GET HOME AND WAS RELIEVED TO FIND OUR LITTLE APARTMENT STILL THERE. HE THOUGHT IT HIT US.I STILL THINK OF THAT TERRIBLE DAY AND HOW LUCKY I AM TO BE ALIVE, TO ENJOY MY GRANDKIDS ZOE AND ZAYAH AND NEVER FORGET THAT PSA DAY!
Trey said on Tuesday, September 25, 2007, 11:21
That crashed happened on a Monday. Monday’s and Tuesday’s were my days off. I had just gotten to a nearby grocery store off of University when I heared a loud crinkling sound from above, liek the crushing of al aluminum can. I looked up and there they were, the two planes. The small Cessna was in a free fall like a rock, one of the occupants, partially hanging out of teh crumpled wreckage as it fell. I’ll never forget that scene. Then the impact and explosion of the PSA jet, a huge thunderous explosion and the ground shook.
Myself and a passer-by literaly ran the four or five blocks to the scene to see if we could help. There was intense heat, thick, choking smoke, a sickeningly sweet smell of kerosoene and debris falling everywhere.
We helped an elderly woman from her home, which was just starting to catch fire. A Navy fire engine raced up and soon some police, all less than five minutes after the crash.
I was scared, shocked, winded from the five block run, and just full of adrenaline. Peopel were scurrying baout screaming, crying, frightened. Some were badly injured. We helped a middle-aged man who had a minor head wound from flying debris. He had been in his garage,it turned out, when a smallpiece of debris struck him s it fell through the roof. He was ok ultimately, but scared and in shock.
There were bits and pieces of paper flying about and ripped apart aircraft and bits of human flesh and organs strewn everywhere.
Another man and myself grabbed a garden hose and we were able to save a home that had caught fire alongthe awnings. It had exterior damage from fling debris and some human remains in the yard. We tried not to look. We saw only one, partially dismembered human being, a woman’s body in the grass of the front yard, who had to have known of her fate as the plane plummted as she had clealry urinated and soiled feces into her pantsuit. It was obvious. I retched at the sight of this. And tried not to look back, but she was there for at least an hour before someone finally placed a yellow bag over her. Her eyes were still open, her face contorted in an awkward, fearful stare.
I will never forget that face.
It was a horrid day for all involved.
Tim said on Sunday, November 4, 2007, 12:56
I was working on the 2nd floor of an office about 2 miles from the crash site. We had routine shipments of sheet metal (2 ton spools) dropped at our place of business. The whole building shakes similar to an abrupt earthquake each time. On Sept. 25th I thought it was just another routine materials delievery, but it was actually the shockwave created by the impact of PSA flight 182.
A classmate of mine from Patrick Henry H.S. (flight attendant for PSA) perished in that crash. Donald St.Germain. My prayers and thoughts go out to the families affected by that horrible day.
Vasili said on Sunday, December 2, 2007, 14:24
It is so amazing that Douglas Arthur and Donald St. Germain, the brothers-in-law from PSA got killed in the Crash. St. Germain means Holy Brother.
Vasili said on Sunday, December 2, 2007, 14:25
PSA went out of business 9 years after Douglas Arthur’s Brother-In-Law Donald St. Germain got killed in the Crash.
Sergio said on Wednesday, December 19, 2007, 16:21
PSA didn’t go out of business. They merged with US Air in 1987. They last flew as PSA in April 1988.
My sister was a flight attendant for PSA from Sept. 1975 to June 1987, based in San Diego. She then went to Delta Airlines out of Salt Lake City when she married her husband, a Delta pilot. She was at Delta from August 1987 to Sept. 2001. She is currently with United out of San Francisco and will retire in two years. She knew eleven of the victims of PSA Flight 182, three closely. She still regards PSA as the best and happiest days of her career.
She is known somewhat within the old PSA company/community lore as the flight attendant who was semi-sexually victimized by an intoxicated foot fetish male passenger on a lonely, quiet flight to Puerta Vallarta in August 1980. He apprroached her in the galley, dropped his eyeglasses as an apparant ruse, bent over to pick them up, and forcibly removed her shoe and began tickling her right foot, causing her to laugh uncontrollably momentarily until two other male passengers took alarm and stopped the man, who ws eventually arrested by Mexican authorities in PV.
It was just one of many of the bizarre and colorful tales associated with this once proud airline.
Vasili said on Sunday, December 23, 2007, 17:10
Nikki St. Germain joined her brother with the Lord over a decade after the crash.
Theo said on Monday, December 24, 2007, 12:30
Chalk it up to fate, but I was scheduled to be on that flight. I had gone to Sacramento the previous week for State business. Decided to spend the weekend at an old girlfriends house in Roseville.
After a weekend of partying hard with her and friends, felt hung-over and sleepy on Monday. I was young (25) and dumb and full of Rum. Decided to call in sick that day and rebooked for a later afternoon flight on Hughes Airwest.
Learned of the PSA crash shortly after waking up on local Sacramento news. Spooked, I cancelled the afternoon flight and took a one-way rental car all the way home to Chula Vista, driving for ten hours. I recall listening to the radio broadcasts of the crash all down the Valley that afternoon on I-5 and distinctly remember driving past the site and seeing the glow of floodlights up on the hill from I-805 around Midnight. I could smell the crash. It was very unsettling thinking that had I not partied hard all weekend, I would have met my end up there.
I went home and couldn’t sleep. Called in sick again on Tuesday and watched news coverage all day, read the newspaper about it. Was sick to my stomach.
Finally went back to work on Wednesday and everyone there had been told I almost was on that flight. They sort of treated me differently for a long while after that, nicer than usual, although I was always treated well. After awhile time erased the shock and horror of that day, but not the memories.
Patrick said on Thursday, December 27, 2007, 19:34
I was on the bridge of the US Navy ship USNS Taluga when I heard a noise and looked up and saw the plane starting to veer and head for the ground. It was terrible and I felt helpless, we called it into our control center using our radio, that is all we could do.
Dave said on Friday, January 4, 2008, 9:39
I am a filmmaker located in Boston, MA. I am conducting research for a documentary film about the 1978 PSA jet crash in San Diego.
I am searching for as many persons who were involved with some aspect of the tragedy who would be willing to be interviewed on camera or by phone… witnesses, police and fire units, investigators, residents of the neighborhood of the crash site, bystanders, clean up crews, reporters.
I am also searching for unpublished photos, news articles, film footage…
Any help or tips would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks, Dave
You can reach me at dff30@aol.com
Steve said on Monday, January 7, 2008, 14:11
Saw it happen. I was on my way to pick up my girlfriend in National City to go to the beach. I was approaching SB I-805, on University almost to Boundary, thought I saw something flash or glint in the morning sky to my left. I looked up through my driver’s side window to see the little plane just free fall, totally crumpled. The one guy who posted here is right about the body. I could see what looked like an arm or a leg hanging out the wreckage as it fell. It was horrifying to see that.
The PSA plane sort of went over the top of me, looked like it was going to crash onto 805 so I veered to the shoulder and stopped. But no, the plane turned so sharply it almost did a 180 and then it went in fast. Huge explosion and ball of fire and black smoke. My car shook violently. I could smell the jet fuel immediately.
I raced up Boundary, then over to Nile and parked to see if I could help. The heat was so intense and I was pretty scared to get too close. I saw a lot of neighborhood people running out of their houses as I got out of my car. I ran up Nile Street a block or so and found the innards of a passenger splayed out in the middle of the street and there was a partially clad woman’s torso and the left half of her head (long dark hair) in the driveway of a house on the North side of Nile about six houses or so down from Dwight. There was an artery in her neck still lightly spurting the last bit of blood. Her left eye was staring sraight ahead. I’ll never forget that sight. There was a middle-aged man stillstrapped in his seat, the top of his head badly mangled and his left arm almost severed in the yard of the house next door. These people had to know what was coming, like the other guy said, because the crotch of his pants was glistening wet, but it wasn’t blood. He was leanignto the left and the blood was draining into the grass. That was all it took for me and I ran back to my car, wretched and then left the scene. I drove to my girlfriends house and she said I looked like a ghost. We watched the TV coverage on the news all day and I was in a semi-state of shock. Eventually, I received some counseling as I had recurring nightmares. I eventually got past them.
At the time I used to fly once or twice a year to my parents in Denver. I didn’t step on a jet again until late 1983. I refused.
Stephen Fitzgerald said on Sunday, January 20, 2008, 21:48
I was a passenger on Flt 182 that day having boarded in Sacramento with a stop in LA. I had taken that flight a dozen times before in the previous 3 years while working for the State. When I got on I sat in the last row on the right side of the plane in the smoking section. I began to feel very uncomfortable. During the flight to LA I changed my seat three times and a feeling of dread got stronger. When we landed in LA I got off the plane eventhough I was to be met in San Diego. I got a State car and started to drive to San Diego and stopped at one of our offices in Downey to call San Diego to tell them I was driving in from LA. I was invited to attend to attend a staff meeting and five minutes into the meeting a secretary burst into the room to announce that I had been killed in a plane crash in San Diego. That is how I learned of the crash of PSA Flight 182. Like Mark Twain, I was able to say that news of my death was premature.
Comment on PSA Crash in 1978 by Stephen Fitzgerald said on Sunday, January 20, 2008, 22:11
[...] Comment on PSA Crash in 1978 by Stephen Fitzgerald That is how I learned of the crash of PSA Flight 182. Like Mark Twain, I was able to say that news of my death was premature. [...]
Vasili said on Wednesday, January 23, 2008, 13:58
Nine years after the crash occurred, Douglas Arthur, the brother of Donald St. Germain, who is a victim of the 1978 PSA Incident, is the victim of the deadliest incident by a disgruntled worker in the history of North America.
SARA ANN said on Tuesday, February 12, 2008, 17:24
I was in Gym Class Wilson Jr High that day and remember looking up in the sky seeing the plane fly by, I thought to my self (I love airplanes) went to tie my tennis shoes and when I look up again the wing was on fire and you could hear the precipitating sound of a collusion it seemed it was headed towards the school but all of a sudden shifted. I will never forget that day.
I had classmates that live in North Park and today my mother lives there. Every time I travel to San Diego I remember this sad incident, which is due on Feb. 15th, 2008. I still love travel but this incident always comes to mind.
David said on Wednesday, February 27, 2008, 15:18
I lived in San Diego for 2 years while I attended college (Pt. Loma). I am sure I flew that flight from Sacramento via LA to Sand Diego more than once because my parents lived in Chico at the time and I caught the early flight when I returned to school. What always amazed me is that when I would go to work in the Hillcrest area of San Diego the planes would be over my car by barely 100 feet as they were landing. If I remember correctly (it has been so long) the route to get to work took me up a very steep road to get to the Hillcrest area (right past the airport). I always wondered how the aircraft managed to navigate around the buildings at that time. At any rate this horrible accident had an effect on me, I am so sad and sorry for those who died and lost loved ones.
Ron said on Wednesday, March 12, 2008, 11:59
I lived in North Park just on the other side of the freeway from the crash site. I heard what sounded like an explosion and ran outside to see the plane almost directly overhead, wing on fire, headed for the ground. They say it took 13 seconds from collision time to impact with the ground but it seemed like a minute or more to me. I got to the crash site before any emergency crews but very quickly realized that little could be done. I remember an older lady on her front porch telling me she had a hose out back. Her fence was on fire. The hose had little to no pressure and was really of no use. I seen emergency personell arriving and thought it best to leave the area. I used to love to fly. For many months after the crash I could hear the sounds of the plane going down and the several explosions after the crash. I finally got over my extreme fear of flying but to this day I am not so keen on flying.
Steve said on Monday, March 17, 2008, 13:55
Saw it happen. I was on my mail run off of El Cajon Blvd when I heard a metallic-sounding crunch, looked up, and saw both the small plane and the PSA jet plummet. I could hear the small plane hit the ground first a couple blocks away, not real loud sound, then a tremendous loud bang when the passenger jet hit. The smoke in the area was thick and black, the smell of jet fuel evident.
You know what they say…through the rain, the sleet, and the snow….I finished my mail run that morning, listening to the news on the radio, all while this tragedy unfolded mere blocks away.
One homeowner on my route had a sister that lived on Nile and that woman found a pair of severed feet in high heel shoes and a severed male left arm in her garden THREE DAYS after the crash, said to be among the last remains discovered, although in 1994 a teenage boy down the street found a small, weathered belt buckle and an index finger tip bone to the first knuckle while building a dirt bike ramp in his backyard off of Nile. They were believed to be remains from that crash. The kid lived on my route and showed me the pictures he posed with.
It was a strange day I’ll never forget.
Sherry Lynne said on Thursday, March 20, 2008, 13:00
That’s true. We live on Nile, down the street from the boy who found the buckle and finger. But it was not a belt buckle. It was a seat belt buckle with a finger bone sort of stuck in it. And it was actually in 1996 when the boy found it playing dirt bikes in his parent’s back yard. Their house was about eight or nine houses from the corner of Dwight. Nearly 17 years that was in their back yard. Someone said there had bben some ivy plants there at the time of the crash and that is probably how it went undiscovered. When that family moved in around 1989 or 1990, they did a lot of work back there and took the ivy out. It was a man’s finger and investigators say he probably was holding onto his seat belt and got his finger jammed in it on impact.
In 2001 another neighbor of ours on Boundary, right behind us, resod their back lawn and discovered a small shard of plastic, about seven inches long, and a couple frayed pieces of torn fabric that amazingly still had some of that PSA color in it. It was seat fabric.
I was told one time a small fragment of human eye socket was located in a garden on Nile as well, about 2004 or so. But I never saw that one.
All of this was directly linked to the crash.
Enrique said on Friday, March 28, 2008, 12:28
There was much destruction this sad day. Terrible what happened. I remember. I was 21 then and in school at SDSU. I lived on Nile with my Aunt and cousin Lupe. We moved there from Argentina in 1977. We love San Diego and our neighborhood brothers and sisters much. Our house was condemned because of damage suffered in fire. We were forced to move to La Mesa for almost two year. We came back but feeling never the same.
There was still outline of repair work on stucco wall of home next door where a person on the airplane went through the wall and their head came apart in my neighbors bathroom. He was much sick for a long time in despair over this
Today I think back and am sad. A terrible event in our loved San Diego.
Alisa Ford said on Friday, April 4, 2008, 13:02
I was 15 years old when this accident happened. I was at school looking out the window day dreaming and staring at an airplane. All of a sudden the side of the air plane blew up and I was in a state of shock “were was it going to land?” As I feared It did crash into a neighbor hood. I saw a mushroom cload that was enormous. It was 103 degrees that day, I starting running to the crash site because my father was comming back from Portland Oregon that same morning and I thought it could have been his flight. When I reached the scean it was total chaos, I was crying and hysterical there were officers keeping people out when I tried to get past them I was thrown to the ground. I saw people leaving the scene with debri. I was able to make to the airport to find that it was not my fathers flight, Thank God.
I had friends in the Navy who were in charge of the clean up. I was told horrific stories the worst is when people were taking rings and watches of of body parts and stealing the luggage.
I moved back to Portland Oregon in Oct of 1978 and two months later on 12-28-78 an air plane crashed within 2 miles of our home in the city. It landed on 2 homes that were empty and slid through a bunch of trees. Luckely only 10 people died.
I will never forget. It is like It all happened yesterday.
Joel said on Sunday, April 6, 2008, 17:53
I was 7 years old and attended Central Elementary at the time of the accident. If you are familiar with the area you’ll know that it’s less than a mile away from where the plane crashed down. I had just gottten out of the bathroom when I heard the boom that made me look into the sky. I can remember seeing a fireball,the cesna, falling from the sky. At the time I didn’t know what has happened,but I did know that it could not have been good. My aunt was a nurse at UCSD, she and some of her co workers helped out at ground zero later that day.
My son’s mother lives only a few blocks away now and from time to time I will remember what happened. May everyone who lost their lives that day rest in peace.
Naylor said on Thursday, April 10, 2008, 13:06
It’s true that peeps was taking stuff. My Uncle Jimmy was a young man at that time, around 18 he say, and he and my cousin Louis, who dead now, they always be showing me this and that. They went there when that plane crashed and got them a haul of stuff until the undercover Po be flashing them badges and be chasing people off.
They say back in the day when they used to tell me about this that they got them a gold watch, a couple nice rings, and some money out of a wallet they found in the street. They used that to score some weed in National City the next day.
But they also got them a seat belt, a small piece of the place all ripped. they got them a flight attendant’s shoe with the blood still dry on it. I told them that was gross but they say it was a keepsake of that day. What all else, my cousin Ray had him a PSA magazine that had been on that plane that was all torn and had soem blood on it. Louis gave it to him.
I ain’t saying it was right what they do. But this was back in the day when they rolled liked that, mobbing and stuff. They cool not long after that and Uncle Jimmy he out in El Cajon now in a big old house with a cool ride. But he still got that stuff in a box in the attic. And Louis he died like a few years ago, but he had that stuff around still.
They talk about that day, all the bodies they seen and the parts of bodies. But they bad back then, lifting rings and watched and that right off of severed arms and what not. He gave one ring they had left over to his woman over there in Chula I think she was and she and him they got into it over that saying she was going to call the Po and that. He used to tell that story and laugh.
Yeah, but that was then. This ain’t nothing but said and I would never roll like they do back then. It ain’t right.
I’m sorry for those peeps that got killed in that.
Peace,
Nay
David said on Thursday, April 10, 2008, 13:25
You’re’ right-it wasn’t right to lift personal items off dead people – it’s damn disgusting. Pisses me off reading about punks scrounging for souvenirs from members of loved ones. I hope they got some souvenirs of their own being somebody’s bitch behind bars.
Harlon Buckwalter said on Tuesday, April 15, 2008, 10:24
It is true that items were removed from victims remains. My brother-in-law Allen, was a San Diego Police Department officer at the time, and he later told stories of local “thugs” or gang-type members helping themselves to items until chased off, similar to the post here by Naylor.
In one case, a young man actually had an entire severed arm in hand and was trying to wrench off a ring. He was arrested after a brief chase.
People were grabbing many items, virtually anything they could get their hands on, even bloodied or worse, soiled clothing. He was disgusted.
Vasili said on Sunday, April 20, 2008, 13:46
Donald St. Germain’s sister got remarried to David Jackson. Her full name is Nikki June St.Germain-Arthur/Jackson.
Vasili said on Sunday, April 20, 2008, 13:51
St. Germain’s full name is Donald Chester St. Germain.
larry b marcs said on Thursday, April 24, 2008, 17:46
I knew one of the passengers on board the flight,,,Charles Bren (son of Clare Trevor-movie actress) He was a wonderful young man..only 32 years old…
We worked together at the Bren Company in Los Angeles during 1977/78.
He had invited a photographer that I knew to accompany him on the flight…fortunately that person had to cancel at the last minute…What a tragedy!…I still think of him and the crash…
He left a wonderful family and lifestyle.
Franz Liepenwicz said on Tuesday, April 29, 2008, 15:29
One of the interesting outcomes of this tragedy was that, nearly 30 years later, Donald St. Germain’s name continues to come up due mostly in part to the near obsessive fascination with the man by Vasili. True. Just sayin.
Tim Hobson said on Wednesday, April 30, 2008, 14:27
My sister’s best friend Twiggy saw this crash happen. She was at a little in and out grocery market down the street. She had just gotten into her car when she saw and heard the impact.
She described the private plane as plummeting like a stone. “It sort of bounced off the wing of the PSA jet, flipped upside down and just dropped like a stone” was her paraphrased quote we heard more than once over the years.
Twiggy said there was a lot of paper, plastic, and luggage strewn about and blowing in the air at her end of the alley but saw just one body, a middle-aged man she said had the back of his head missing and a mostly severed arm dangling. He had landed in the alley, still attached to his seat, which landed upright,his legs badly broken underneath it. She literally got in her car and left just an hour later, shaken, but refusing medical assistance, vomiting twice on the way home.
She said she smelled of jet fuel the rest of the day.
Twiggy went on to live O.B. for many years and sadly passed away in September 2004 at the age of 49, drowning in a surfing accident in New Zealand.
She talked about this terrible day many times in the years we were all friends in the surfing community around O.B.
bill said on Thursday, May 1, 2008, 0:49
How could anyone forget that horrible day. I had an antique shop at ohio and adams which is very close to 32 and polk. I felt I just had to get my nosy butt to the site of the cessna crash site. Wish I hadn’t. Out of respect to the family I won’t describe it– just wish I hadn’t been so nosy.
Vasili said on Sunday, May 4, 2008, 13:30
Before the crash occurred in 1978, there is one famous person in the PSA. Victor Sen Yung, the Chinese Cook on the Bonanza was accidently injured by the FBI, fortunately, he was alive!
Flip Schattinger said on Tuesday, May 6, 2008, 12:54
My Aunt Sheila lost part of her backyard fence to debris from the crash. A section of wing sliced through the fence and took out about 10 foot of it.
The wing piece, about six feet long and three feet wide, ended up slicing through the back yard and impacted a small, cinderblock wall about waist high that sectioned off her garden from the rest of the yard. The piece had to have hit that cinder block wall hard, because it broke all the way through the cinder block, and into the soil behind it.
It wasn’t removed for three or four days and when they did come to get it, it took about five guys and a a couple crow bars to pry it out. I’ll never forget that effort. That piece had been thrown at least a quarter mile down Boundary from Ground Zero to make it into my Aunt’s yard.
Her best friend across the street and about five or six houses closer to Ground Zero had three whole bodies and several smaller remains on the roof, one side, and in both yards of her house.
As it was pointed out in a couple of the messages here, those poor souls had to know what was happening even if it was quickly, because one female body in her backyard had very wet slacks where it was clear the poor woman had urinated in fear. Otherwise, her body had only minor scratches.
Lou said on Monday, May 19, 2008, 11:37
The plane crashed just three blocks from our house. But I was at the grocery store. When I rushed back to the house I barely made it as the police was in the process of shutting down the street.
I found finger fragments and some internal organs on the side of our house that aftenoon and had the authorities come to pick them up. They took lots of photos first.
My next door neighbor had a severed head and part of the back fall into his gazebo. Teh facial expression on that head I will never forget…a look of terror,mouth agape as if in a scream. It was awful. Nobody should ever have to see such a thing.
A horrible day for us all and one that took years to get over.
Virginia said on Sunday, June 1, 2008, 7:26
On that day I wasn’t feeling too well and stayed home from work. My apartment, on Nile, was about two blocks from the PSA crash site.
The initial impact sounded like a sonic boom. Moments later we felt the concussion of jet’s impact on the ground. It nearly blew out the apartment’s windows and my air conditioner stop running.
I went out on the balcony to inquire of neighbors. We were puzzled – until a man parked his car and informed us that a plane had just crashed down the street. At the same time, we saw a large mushroom cloud of smoke rising over the roof, so I went downstairs to look down the street to see what was happening.
Across my street was a two-story high wall of fire! People were running toward the fire from all directions and fire trucks began responding. Lookie-loos were coming off the freeway to get a closer view and impeding emergency response units. (Our cul-de-sac was quickly filled with lookie-loos.)
I went back to my apartment and got a call from my co-worker, who wanted to know if I was alright. I reassured her then called my husband, who hadn’t heard the news yet.
Jacque said on Tuesday, June 3, 2008, 21:51
I have a friend who was in the SD fire department at the time. He said the roads to the site were already clogged up when they were arriving. At times the trucks had to ram the cars aside in order to get through.
Earl said on Wednesday, June 11, 2008, 9:15
My sister Ruthie lived in the apartments acorss the street from the impact site. She worked overnights for UPS back then and was alseep in bed when that crash happened.
The impact literally bounced her out of bed. She thought it was an earthquake. Then she saw lots of little pieces of paper and debris fluttering past the kitchen window which faced I-805. And smoke. She then thought the apartments had exploded. They hadn’t and only had superficial damage, but lots of little bits and pieces of aircraft and flesh and bone and at least two bodies on the roof of her section.
When she walked outside she could feel the heat from the fire and smell the jet fuel depsite the thick dark smoke, she could see the outline of the jet’s tail and knew instantly it was a plane crash.
It took her years to get over the shock of the crash. She left the area and moved to Scripps Ranch. It was just a bad memory she couldn’t get past and there were many sleepness nights and nightmares even into the mid 80’s.
dionne said on Thursday, June 12, 2008, 11:50
I was in 4th grade attending Euclid Elementary school in East San Diego at the time. A nurse was in our class room demonstrating how to properly brush our teeth. All of a suddent I saw her mouth drop open. I turned around to see the the PSA plane going down and then a huge cloud of smoke. Even then my heart hurt for the people on the plane and their families. They are forever on my mind and in my prayers.
jimman said on Saturday, June 14, 2008, 4:00
Man ,wont ever forget that shit,was 15 years old and saw the little cessna come burning down with the pilot hanging out of it, thinking fuck is this a dream? after that i looked up and saw the airliner on fire heading straight for the ground heading for 801, but she turned and slammed the ground 2 blocks away from where i was with what id say was a shockwave that moved every thing 1 mile away. A huge fire ball rose up immediately and i ran down dwight street to see if anybody could be helped, and soon realised that it was hopeless. There were what i’d say were bits and pieces of people scattered about only. i didnt see one complete human, Only limbs and torso parts. It was a day i will never forget and i didnt sleep for 4 nights afterwards. I refuse to fly and the smell of kerosene will make me vomit, total nightmare that devastated so many people.My family was friends with Robert Osby , from fire department. and i can tell you he was mentally disturbed for life after that day.
Kat said on Tuesday, June 17, 2008, 12:22
My Step-Dad owned a house on Nile that he rented out. He was at home in Point Loma working in his wood shop when the tenant came up all shocked and weird acting and said most of the house was destroyed in a plane crash. Pops thought he was joking. He hadn’t the news on that morning and was unaware of the crash. This was about 2 PM. He thought the smoke was from some regular fire.
Pops was allowed in there on Wednesday and found the house was about half burned out. That night he discovered a few small pieces of luggage contents and eye glasses in the spa.
The guy next door was literally hospitalized because he survived the plane crashing near his house as he was in the front yard mowing, but saw a human being fly down the street, prone “like Superman” flying in the air he used to say, about thirty feet above the street at impact, which was a couple blocks up. He said the man had a high-pitched scream like a pig sreech, He could actually hear that amongst the concussion and explosion. That sound and the sight put him in the hospital for almost six weeks due to mental issues. The flying man ended up impacting a car a couple houses down.
The man next door lived there for many years after and still had bad dreams even in 1992 when I saw him last.
David said on Tuesday, June 17, 2008, 14:11
There are several observations on these posts that are so heart wrenching – not just the hapless passengers, but the effects on witnesses to this tragedy. There is a post that mentions victims observed with incontinence of feces and urine. This may indeed have been an effect of psychological trauma, however other factors must be considered, the g-forces of a fall of 2800 feet at 280 mph could certainly have an effect on sphincter control as well as the sudden impact. And the post that mentions a body whistling/screaming as it flew by, I would seriously doubt that anyone would survive the initial impact, any noise from a body would be caused by other factors other than emotions. At impact, any brain activity would stop when hitting the ground where g-forces and physics essentially add tons of weight to ones own body.
Kat said on Tuesday, June 17, 2008, 15:13
Regarding the body going past at a high-pitched volume. This is quite true. The man witnessing it was not alone, just the only one there I personally knew. A pedestrian also observed it as well as a neighbor acorss the street who actually suffered minor injuries in the incident, inflicted by flying debris. It is documented as all were interviewed. What the cause of the sound is as anybody’s guess.
When the plane struck it exploded to the left, or South in a manner that several passengers were thrown, if you will, down the alleyway and Nile. This is well-documented.
The so-called “flying man” was, in fact, found impacted in a parked automobile. And sound was heard coming from the person.
It is what it is.
Sheri said on Tuesday, June 17, 2008, 15:58
I was dating Chuck Bren, who tragically lost his life along with others in this incident. He was an amazing guy, who will forever remain in our thoughts and prayers, as will all of the passengers and crew members.
Irish said on Wednesday, June 18, 2008, 11:06
I think poster David is simply disturbed at the notion of the human suffering associated with this tragic incident and reasoning away, albeit logically, the reports of incontinence and screaming. What he states is true, that in an impact of that nature, severe bowel/bladder compormise is common. And such an impact is instantly fatal 99 percent of the time, thus little if any reaction post-impact from the victims.
However, PSA 182 was eerily differnt on many levels. As a former NTSB investigator assisting in the disaster, albeit early in my career, we discovered a number of extraordinary occurences on several levels.
The aircraft impacted at a near 60 degree angle, nose to the right if you will, approximatley 30 feet to the left of Dwight Street, striking a house roof top. Disintegration began miliseconds later as the nose came into contact with the home’s concrete garage floor. This caused the lefy side of the airframe to “blow out” if you will like popping a plastic shopping bag. Passengers on that side of the airframe were distributed outward and upward across a 60 degree field of dispersion in excess of 200 miles per hours. Most were dismembered in the initial outward trajectory, some still attached to their seats. We discovered one ofthe three “whole” bodies from the debris field approximatley 220 yards south-southeast of Ground Zero, impacted in an automobile parked facing south on Nile Street. It was a man and the skull was burst open, contents dispersed in the car’s interior, however the body remained whole. The man’s trousers were soiled in feces and urine.
Neighbors did, in fact, report a high-pitched screech. The medical examiner found the man’s jaws in an open position, left eye wide open as if one had seen a ghost, if you will.
We all concluded at the time, this man was the so-called “flying man” witnessed by those who saw the impact.
David said on Wednesday, June 18, 2008, 12:23
I need to clarify my pervious remarks, and thank you Irish, for doing this for me in your post as well.
I was in no way implying that people were not thrown from the plane or that witnesses did not hear high pitched screams. But for me and likely others, I want to find logic in something that was so horrible. There have been hundreds of terrible aircraft disasters, from the Tenerife tragedy in 1977 to of course 9/11 – they all have their level of suffering and horrible loss.
But this aircraft, for some reason hits me in the gut at a visceral level. I lived in San Diego for 3 years 1974-1977 (previous post), it was the first “City†I lived in as a young man, right out of high school from a tiny town in Northern California, I learned how to work and became independent – I “Grew up†so to speak in your beautiful city, so perhaps that is why I identify with this accident on a gut level.
But what I think affects me so deeply is the photograph. I learned about this tragedy after coming home from work one day, (1 year after leaving San Diego) I’d just gotten married and moved back to Northern California; seeing that picture on the front page of the newspaper – it hooked me in a way I will never forget.
I liken this tragedy to The Titanic. So avoidable, a collision that should have, could have, been prevented yet it happened anyway – so again there is no logic, just sadness and reverence for the loss of human life and suffering.
Allen Simpson said on Thursday, June 19, 2008, 9:40
Wow, discovered this site this morning through a co-worker.
The man called Irish is correct. I don’t recall the name so it must be a nickname, but I too, worked that incident. Back then many we were tasked, in most crashes, with sort of an extra-duty of tagging remains locations as we went about our work. At least I and my partner were on several investigations. Sounds like Irish was too.
That place was a mess. The impact site was small in all actuality. But the remains were scattered about over a much larger distance. There was a great deal of mutiliation and comingling so to find three whole remains was noteworthy and memorable.
There was, indeed, a male with a partially decapitated skull in an automobile, in a prone or “flying” type posture. That is fact. We were told when we got to that area as we marked debris sites that neighbors “swore” and that is a direct quote, there was a high-pitched scream or shrill coming from the nightmarish site of a so-called “Superman” flying from the debris field.
It has to be true as these neighbors were clearly disturbed and at least one I recall was transported for medical evaluation.
This was not reported to the media at the time as the whole thought of the matter was deemed too disturbing for an already excessively disturbing day in San Diego. I do recall conversation about this.
I had trouble with that investigationto the extent that I took a one month vacation in October 1978 to recover mentally. There was no CISM briefing in that era. We just had to “suck it up.” It was one of the most horrific crash sites I have ever been involved with, second only to the Pentagn in 2001, which came just one month before my retirement.
And yes, incontinence was the rule of the day on board that aircraft, in the neighborhood, and even for some emergency responders. It was that bad. No shame in that. Just biological fact.
Virginia said on Thursday, June 19, 2008, 9:56
“second only to the Pentagon in 2001″
Allen:
What happened to the wreckage from the above-referenced crash?
According to Rumsfield, Flight 93 was shot down, which explains the fact that there was no wreckage only a large hole in the ground.
Allen said on Thursday, June 19, 2008, 12:04
Virginia,
Utter conspiratorial nonsense. And shameful. Silly on the face of it.
Virginia said on Thursday, June 19, 2008, 12:08
“Utter conspiratorial nonsense. And shameful. Silly on the face of it.”
I don’t think so, Allen:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6Xoxaf1Al0
In a candid moment in front of U.S. troops, Donald Rumsfeld strays from the official story of heroic passengers flying fight 93 into the ground by saying it was “shot down.”
Joe Crawford said on Thursday, June 19, 2008, 12:23
I don’t feel a diversion into talking about 9-11 and whatever controversies there are out there is appropriate on a post about this specific tragedy. As such, any new posts that are merely 9-11 conspiracy claims and arguments against them will be deleted.
Virginia said on Thursday, June 19, 2008, 13:03
[this content of this post was off-topic and has been removed]
D. Allison said on Sunday, June 22, 2008, 9:48
God bless all the innocents who perished as a result of this terrible crash. I wish people would stop assuming that those who were found to have had bowel and bladder incontinence had “terror” and fear. When folks pass, it is common to soil themselves. My feeling is that most of these people had no idea that they were going to die. They are now angels in Heaven, enjoying the Lord. I hope that the man who is making a documentary of this incident focuses on the lives of the deceased, and the possible causes as opposed to just detailing the graphic gore. May the souls of these people rest in peace. Sorry to all of those who had to witness this sad event.
annette said on Wednesday, June 25, 2008, 5:54
I was skipping class in the naighborhood when the crash happened. I ran to the site even befor the police did and so did many others I was on Bancroft street in a house that was not hit but the house next to it was and many others around the naighborhood. The liqor store down the street had bodys all over it and holes it houses from the impact. All I remember too is that I was running away back towards home and wanting to be safe and not get busted for skipping school. I felt like I was in a dream; the horror of it all still haunts me in my dreams.
Lisa V said on Saturday, June 28, 2008, 15:32
I remember being out at gym class at wilson jr high we could see the plane on fire going down, my friend jim lived on boundary street, he left the school and ran home, his home was ok. but my friend mike L. was at home when the plane wiped out boundary street, he said that he came outside and thought we had been bombed, the house right next door to him was wiped out, wow…right across this wooden fence, he said he saw bodies, jim said he did too when he was trying to get home, I was in the 7th grade. I lived in Golden hills and the planes always flew over our house, after that I always thought it could happen again, sometimes I still dream that it does. I used to work at teledyne aeronautical and when the planes would be landing next to us I always thought of PSA flight 182, wondering if they would crash.
Mike said on Monday, June 30, 2008, 21:56
Lisa V.,
Your comments were captivating, as are many other posts. Lisa, have you ever heard of a Phil Kinney while working at Teledyne Ryan?
I was in 9th grade at Mt. Carmel when I heard about the crash–it was surreal at the time. Even though I was not directly involved in the crash, I find myself continually checking this site.
bob smith said on Tuesday, July 1, 2008, 12:51
i knew the flight attendant, that had switched shifts with here co-worker
she told me that she was to be on that flight,, was was spared…very sad
Ronnie Simpson said on Tuesday, July 1, 2008, 16:53
I was in School at San Diego Academy in National City that day. I didn’t see or hear the crash but when I head about it later that day I remember becoming overwhelmed with fear and sadness. I am 40 years old now. I don’t fly because of that fear. I have had to fly in the past and I go through so much emotional stress that I just don’t do it anymore. I used to write good bye letters to my kids, would spend weeks before a trip crying and never really could enjoy being where I was if I had to return by air. There were three times that I just couldn’t get on the plane and let the tickets go.
Today, I live in North Park. My friend lives in the new house where the wing destroyed the old house.
It changed my life and the life of many others as well as my home, San Diego.
Peace to all those who suffered through the terrible crash, both the victims and their loved ones.
Steven Dietz said on Wednesday, July 2, 2008, 14:48
Hello everyone. I was home sick from 5th grade the day it happened. I remember I was watching Laverne and Shirley in bed when the news hit. There are two aspects of this terrible day that stick in my mind. We lived in Loma Portal and I truly remember hearing the impact. Like a muffled boom and then the windows shook in my room. This would also happen at times when the Marines at Pedleton would fire their big artillery. Does anyone know if this could be possible at that distance?
About 1987 I met a retired San Diego Police Officer, I can not remember his name. He claimed to have been on site at the time of impact. He told me something I found very disturbing and a bit hard to believe. He said that there was quite a bit of screaming/moaning in the seconds following the impact from still alive passengers. I found it hard to believe but know on reading flying/screaming man I am wondering if that may be possible. Does anyone have any recollection of this? Thanks all.
bill warren said on Wednesday, July 2, 2008, 16:50
I posted once before about this crash. About a month after it happened my partner and I took a flight to San Francisco. We were on an identical PSAplane and jittery as hell about flying. Over Oceanside all the lights went out except for the aisle lights and the cabin was bathed in a red glow. The plane made a sharp pitch to the right (just like te famous picture) There was ding-ding-ding in the cabin. We all were scared s–tless. Turns out an engine had flamed out and we were getting back to the airport. They cleared the runway and we landed from the opposite end. When we de-planed there were tv cameras all over the place. I have some idea of the terror those poor souls felt. Anyone else here who was on that plane? Bill
The Boe said on Thursday, July 3, 2008, 11:46
I am pleased this comment board exsists. The only reoccuring dream I ever have is a plane crash dream. It’s not always the same crash but the emotions are always the same. On September 25, 1978 I was 7 years old and went to Kate Session Elementary School. I loved airplanes as they represented to gateway to summer fun as my family would travel to Maine every year since I was born. The day the plane crashed it was so hot school was cancelled. My dad was listening to KSDO radio which was broadcast from the highrise building in Northpark (which is now the Bank of California building) the announcer was looking out the window shitting his pants watching the plane crash and cusing and crying about what he was seeing before his eyes…giving the listeners a play by play. I was so little and so sad and scared. The next year Brenda Spencer shot all those kids/adults at Cleveland Elementary, the principal at my school left to take over for the dead one. Then later was the McDonald’s shooting. But the plane crash was so major and important. I became obsessed with airplanes after that. I always begged my dad to drive me to North Park to drive by “The Hole” so I could see where it happened. Now I live not too far from there. I hope we can continue to honor all of those people who were killed and injured, their families, and all of the San Diegans and others who effected by this. Northpark has got soul.
Comment on PSA Crash in 1978 by Ronnie Simpson said on Thursday, July 3, 2008, 22:43
[...] Comment on PSA Crash in 1978 by Ronnie Simpson I was in School at San Diego Academy in National City that day. I didn’t see or hear the crash but when I head about it later that day I… [...]
Ron Fleming said on Saturday, July 5, 2008, 0:36
I was in the navy at the time. not the day after in happened but the day after that I was mustered along with a bunch of other sailors to go to the site and gather pieces of the 727 and pile them up in the street. I found body parts and a soft fly coverd corpes buried in the rubble. I tell this story and people think Im bullshitting.Was I really there? Does the navy have records? Time is a funny thing. Maybe it was a dream. I know it was not. Ron
Kevin Smith said on Tuesday, July 8, 2008, 11:21
My father was on that fateful flight. Ironically he had been bumped from his scheduled flight the night before and the airline comped him with an upgrade on PSA 182. His name was Roger (48) and he left 6 children (then aged 10 -27) and a wife. Our loss was worsend by the fact that we never recieved a body to bury or memorialize. In 2002 I finally visited the site of the disaster. No other family member of mine ever wish to visit the site. As I stood there I spoke with a number of residents walking dogs, etc., that still lived in the neighborhood and recalled the day’s events. When I heard that some victime were actually looted, I was saddened to think that someone may have grabbed a physical piece of my fathers last moments before meeting his maker. If anyone knows of plans for a memorial this September marking the 30th anniversary of this tragedy, please leave a note and I will check back to this site often.
May they all rest in peace.
Kevin
Clemson Grad said on Tuesday, July 8, 2008, 13:12
I was in high school in ‘78. I was off that day because school was to be cancelled at Noon due to the heat wave. So, being the way I was back then, I cut class. I was with a buddy on University when the two planes hit.
The little plane dropped right away and we could see arms and legs dangling out as described in earlier posts. The PSA jet looked like it was going to hit I-805 but then veered back in and then BAM! I mean it was a really loud explosion. There was a huge ball of flame.
We ran down there and got as close to the area as we could, hoping to help. No use.
The flying/screaming man must’ve really happened. My buddy threw up and was close to passing out and a neighbor laid him down on the grass and gave him water. He had been walking around when we got separated and came upon a man who was speared into the back of a car in a flying position and the man’s head was partially removed. “Scalped” is how my buddy put it at the time.
We also saw a decapitated woman, a PSA flight attendant, who landed in a man’s front yard. She had clearly wet her pants, so those accounts are true as well.
Also, the looters. There were many. We saw one young black male maybe 16 to 18 going through a purse. He eventually got chased off and threatened with arrest if he didn’t leave. We left too and were never the same.
To this day, thirty years later, I still have the odd nightmare now and then.
Steven Dietz said on Tuesday, July 8, 2008, 13:32
TO KEVIN SMITH
So sorry to hear about your father. As for a memorial service on the 30th anniversary I am not sure. I do know that I will be at the crash site at 8:30 through about 9:30. Perhaps I will see you there.
Pete said on Wednesday, July 9, 2008, 8:31
IAs for the alleged Police Officer who claimed to be on-site, that is nonesense. And NO victims were left screaming and moaning after impact, with the exception of the aforementioned flying man who was clearly heard catapulting down the street with a high-pitched scream by several shocked witnesses to the entire event, several of whom sought medical treatment/counseling because of this.
It was well-known that day and not reported due to the horrific shock value of such a thing. Remember, this was 1978. Even the local media had the taste not to report about a screaming, defecating man flying through the air at speed.
So, that did happen. But others? None that I am aware of and I was a first responder with SDPD, arriving within 15 minutes of the crash.
The actual first responder was a US Navy Fire engine and a SDPD motorcycle officer who was the one to call in the incident literally seconds after impact. He was near Balboa Park at the time, working a four-way stop for violaters.
When I got there it was pure mayhem. Debris and fire, body parts everywhere, screaming neighbors, the thick, acrid smell of jet fuel and burning plastic, and flesh. Total chaos.
The little Navy engine was fighting fire furiously and those guys were heroes. SDFD had just arrived when I pulled up and one of their Captains was sick to his stomach on the spot. I rendered assistance to him and then when he gathered himself, we just started fighting fire and herding neighbors away from danger.
I was there until 10 PM that evening. It was the single worst day of my 11 years at SDPD (11 more at LA Harbor Police and five with DEA). I had nightmares periodically for a decade or more. I distinctly recall the crunching sound of bone fragment under my boots during the day and never could quite get that out of my mind.
It’s been 30 years almost, and yet it seems like only yesterday. I know that sounds like a cliche, but it is true. It was a day that I will never, ever forget.
Leanne said on Wednesday, July 9, 2008, 12:34
I recall the car with the prone body sticking out the back. It’s true. It did look as though it was Superman, arms outstretched and all. They covered the whole car by 2 PM or so.
We couldn’t get out of the neighborhood. The police and media wanted to talk to us all day it seemed.
I missed the crash as I was asleep. But it woke me up. Our house was not damaged and we were maybe three or four houses to the south of the flying man.
We did have paper debris and stuff blow around the yard but that as it. The guy across the street, he was a UPS driver, he rushed home to check on his wife. She was at the store when it happened. I recall how relieved he was to see her pull up wondering what the hell had happened.
That couple had a femur and a pair of high heels in their back yard and some insulation in their big tree back there. That was it. The femur had been charred clean of the flesh in a blast like pattern. He spent half the day trying to get someone back there to pick it up.
We all had nightmares for years I think. I know I did. To this day I can smell that stench and never, ever will forget that poor man’s body that flew into the back of that car. I didn’t see it happen, but everyone said he was screaming high-pitched like and then bam! That was all the talk on that side of the street. Awful.
Steve Kyle said on Monday, July 14, 2008, 11:37
I was stationed at NAS Miramar, instructing pilots of TopGun and Fightertown USA in the physiological aspects of flight, and manned the flightline ambulance at the time this crash occured. Due to the limited availability of crash ambulances for the Fightertown area runways, we were instructed to maintain an on-call status for the PSA 182 crash, but were not authorized to respond to the tragedy. In an eerie coincidence, the same year yeilded two crashes at NAS Miramar: an F-14 Tomcat crashed and skidded across the San Diego freeway in an approach to Miramar, and a Navy Blue Angel went down at a pre-show exhibition for the press on November 8 … I was a first-responder at both crashes.
Larry Feldman said on Monday, July 14, 2008, 14:22
My buddy lost his prized custom-painted metal-flake lime ‘75 Datsun that day. He parked on Nile, near the corner, to see his girlfriend. They jumped in her car to go to the beach. They didn’t get back in until the next day. No more Datsun. It was crushed by one of the wings.
His girlfriends neighbor was less fortunate. She lost her life, struck by flying debris, which literally impaled her by force onto a street sign.
Matt said on Tuesday, July 15, 2008, 16:32
where exactly did it go down? I know it was 30 ft left of dwight , but on nile?
also wher exactly did the cessna go down, off of Upas somewhere right?
isn’t there supposed to be video of the cessna falling from a KCST news crew?
no the houses there dont really look all that different. everything is kind of built in the same style. everytime I thing I found the area, I see a house that is undoubtedly from the 30’s.
how did everyone find out about the superman guy?!
god bless those poor souls
Kevin said on Tuesday, July 15, 2008, 19:20
I wanted to post a note with those of you who read this blog and share a personal story of what occurred to me. My father died on this flight. I was 19 at the time and like many rebellious teenagers had a strained relationship with my Dad at the time. My fault to be certain. I was enlisted in the air force and had just obtained a private pilots license. The saturday before the accident I logged 3.5 hours flight time in the same make/model plane that collided with and brought down flight 182.
My father was proud of my obtaining a pilot license. He was also proud that I had volunteered to serve in the armed forces. I was the first in my father’s family to be US military. Unfortunately I dismissed his pride because teenage rebellion does not think Dad’s pride is “cool”.
When I received word of the accident and that my father had been on the plane I immediately left base and returned to be with my family in Ohio. We organized a memorial service to remember him and his life. He was gregarious, creative, and humble. I stayed in Ohio for a week before returning to my duty station.
I had an apartment off base. It was a small one bedroom studio above a garage. As I climbed the stairs to my apartment I noticed the mailman had left a box at my door. It was from my father. Mailed Sep 23, the box was lovingly filled with individually wrapped items. There were socks, candy, food, toiletries, sundries and books all neatly wrapped like it was Christmas. More than 60 items in all.
It took me over three weeks before I had everything unwrapped. Each item I opened would send me into another bout of tears and remorse at having been so rebellious toward the man who gave me life and whose own was now gone. It was so special that my father would take the time to send such a thoughtful, carefully prepared package for me. It was as though he was still telling me how proud he was of me and that he loved me even after death.
The next morning I forced myself to climb into a Cessna and head out to punch holes in the sky. I believe it is what my father would have wanted.
Marshall said on Wednesday, July 16, 2008, 3:13
I wasn’t born yet when this tragedy occured, I’m 24 but I have done lots of research yearsworth. To hear all of your stories almost brings tears to my eyes but at the same time this further educates on a part of San Diego history. I have aquirred the news paper from back then, the one that shows the coner house on fire looking up Dwight street from in front of the first house in which the roof was demolished on Nile street looking to the west. I have heard various stories from family members and friend who were around that time and as it was described to me by many the cessna was climbing in altitude out of 2300 ft while the 727 flight 182 was gaining on the cessna at the rate of a mile a minute and was decsending out of 2900 ft as the crew of flight 182 lost sight of the small cessna that could easily blend in with the homes below. My Father 18 at the time saw both planes glance off each other he saw a fireball rain down as if it was napalm while the right wing of the PSA 727 caught fire followed by a trail of smoke banking to the right and losing altitude, just before he saw the jetliner disappear behind some trees the planes wings banked into a 60 to 70 degree angle and went sraight down. He felt the shock and heard the explosion from National ave. He later found out it crashed in North Park, I couldn’t believe that debris was spread out that far from the crash site. I grew up in the area for several years a few blocks away from the site not knowing about until my Father told me and that is why he doesn’t fly, a lot of my friends never knew about this tragedy until I told them and a lot still don’t know. For the 30th year of rememberance I want to do a video documentary on this so if any of you would like to share any of your stories I will be honored to hear them, I frequently pass through and can’t help but to look up Dwight st from Nile st still don’t believe something like this would happen. If anyone has any video footage, pictures, radio recordings that could further help me with information for the documentary please let me know.
Contact me at sirmarshall@tmo.blackberry.net
Thanx Marshall
Marshall said on Wednesday, July 16, 2008, 3:19
I wasn’t born yet when this tragedy occured, I’m 24 but I have done lots of research yearsworth. To hear all of your stories almost brings tears to my eyes but at the same time this further educates me on a part of San Diego history. I have aquirred the news paper from back then, the one that shows the coner house on fire looking up Dwight street from in front of the first house in which the roof was demolished on Nile street looking to the west. I have heard various stories from family members and friends who were around that time and as it was described to me by many the cessna was climbing in altitude out of 2300 ft while the 727 flight 182 was gaining on the cessna at the rate of a mile a minute and was decsending out of 2900 ft as the crew of flight 182 lost sight of the small cessna that could easily blend in with the homes below. My Father 18 at the time saw both planes glance off each other he saw a fireball rain down as if it was napalm while the right wing of the PSA 727 caught fire followed by a trail of smoke banking to the right and losing altitude, just before he saw the jetliner disappear behind some trees the plane banked into a 60 to 70 degree angle and went sraight down. He felt the shock and heard the explosion from National ave. He later found out it crashed in North Park, I couldn’t believe that debris was spread out that far from the crash site. I grew up in the area for several years a few blocks away from the site not knowing about until my Father told me and that is why he doesn’t fly, a lot of my friends never knew about this tragedy until I told them and a lot still don’t know. For the 30th year of rememberance I want to do a video documentary on this so if any of you would like to share any of your stories I will be honored to hear them, I frequently pass through and can’t help but to look up Dwight st from Nile st still don’t believe something like this would happen. If anyone has any video footage, pictures, radio recordings that could further help me with information for the documentary please let me know. My heart goes out to all lost or affected in any way.
Contact me at sirmarshall@tmo.blackberry.net
Thanx Marshall
Klemm said on Wednesday, July 16, 2008, 13:07
“Superman” was witnessed by, I believe it was three or four residents on Nile, all of which required hospitalization, as did two emergency responders at the scene who removed him from the automobile.
The story on the block over the the next few years was that his flying body, stretched out prone, arms extended, was accompanied by a high-pitched scream or squeal sound, and that was what put one poor man into counseling and mental health care all the way to 1984!
He was a neighbor of my Aunt’s and told the story to us one time. A few years later we brought it up with the woman across the street who confirmed it and told us the rest of the story.
When I interned at the San Diego Union in the late 80’s I mentioned this to a reporter who won some sort of journalism award covering that crash and he said, in fact, the story was confirmed by three or four of the actual eye witnesses to the crash, a photo was taken of the impacted car, and then the editors decided to “spike” that item because they deemed it “too disturbing on an already disturbing day.”
In late 1999, at a party in North Park, I met a woman who was a flight attendant for PSA in 1978. The subject of the crash came up abd I told her the stories I’d heard about superman. She mentioned that particular man was identified as an off-duty PSA employee and mentioned the name but I have long since forgotten it. Sorry. Yes, I have no reason to doubt this as fact. It has come up too often in conversations in the neighborhood and even on this website.
I just called my ex-wife’s sister who was a coroner for 11 years and she said what likley happned, and it is purely conjecture based on her two or three small aircraft crash investigations, is that the man was most likley at the rear of the aircraft, was already screaming as the plane went down, and was thrown to the left of the aircraft as that portion of the fuselage “opened up”, and that it freed him from the deceleration quickly enough to prevent a basular skull fracture, we are talking miliseconds here. Thus, he was conscience and alert upon ejection, and would have, unless he passed out, about three seconds of awareness before impacting the car. In her opinion, that would be substantial enough time to produce the scream people allegedly heard, as well as the defecation in the trousers unless that had already all been underway and it was merely a continuum until impacting the car.
Fascinating opinion. “Totally possible scenario.” That was her comment.
At any rate, ask anyone left in the neighborhood today and chances are you’ll here abouth the screaming superman, or flying man. I used to hear about it all the time and even met the man who was most disturbed by it.
Awful, awful thought, but apparently a sad reality from that awful day itself.
Melanie Glenn said on Wednesday, July 16, 2008, 15:01
Interesting site. We lived in Sacramento at the time. Our next door neighbor lost he husband on that flight. I was attending American River College at the time and had come home that morning when my class was cancelled. We heard a blood-curtling scream from the house and both my mother and I and the man in the house on the other side came running thinking there had been an attacker.
We found her on the living room floor, tv coverage on the crash, and she was sobbing uncontrollably borderline hysterics.
She KNEW he was on that flight as she had taken him to the airport and then flipped on the tv later that morning to learn of the crash, a few minutes later the report there were no survivors.
We stayed with her for a week, helping her out.
Edgar Delahuerta said on Thursday, July 17, 2008, 14:03
My brother Roberto was touched by this and another national tragedy a year earlier, amazingly.
In Spring 1975 Roberto moved from National City to Cincinnati, Ohio to work at his business partners Mexican restaurant there. He was a chef at the time.
He met a girl in Kentucky and they became quite serious in Summer 1976. He brought her out here for the Bicentennial celebration in Lakeside that year. They were engaged in January 1977. Sadly, she lost her life in Beverly Hills Supper Club Fire in May of 1977, just four months before their wedding date. She had gone there to attend a bridal shower of another woman and died of smoke inhalation.
My brother was devastated and soon returned to San Diego. In December of 1977 he returned to his original restaurant in Chula Vista and began to rebuild his life, still reeling from the tragedy.
In April on 1978 he met a PSA Flight Attendant at his apartment complex. They attended the All-Star Game that summer and they also went on a weekend get away to Las Vegas. He seemed to be recovering and was happy with this new girl.
Then on Sept. 25, 1978 she was killed in this crash, just as they were starting to get serious. At least it was headed that way.
He ended up off work for several weeks and began drinking. Thank goodness he stopped and he did recover to continue on with his profession but it was a long time before he was happy again.
In 1985, June, he went on a weekend getaway with friends to the Colorado River for rafting. The girl he was to be set up with as a sort of blind date was killed in a traffic accident on US 95 on the way to the trip. He never even got to meet her.
He remained single until June 2002 and was finally married to a beautiful single madre of two, and they now live in Imperial Beach.
He knows of this website but is too hurt to post. He did say that he had “feelings” for the young flight attendant who perished in this crash and remembers her vividly.
D. Allison said on Thursday, July 17, 2008, 15:36
Edgar, I am so sorry to hear of the tragedies that have befallen your brother. May God bless him and bless the victims of flight 182. Congrats to your brother on his new marriage, and he will be in my prayers.
Trey153 said on Sunday, July 20, 2008, 23:57
I just read all the comments on the site. Amazing and heart-wrenching. Particularly, the “superman” ones. When I first looked at those comments it made me sick to my stomach. And it has stuck with me, just the thought of what that person had to not only experience on the way down, but then also being ejected alive. I cannot imagine what that would be like.
Blanca said on Monday, July 21, 2008, 12:29
The person whom refer to as “superman” here because of his appearance, this happend to be seen by the neighbor of my sister. She was not home when this crash take place but did see this however when she rush home a few hours later. This man they talk of, he was stuck in back of car and very broken around the head. Her neighbor, this very nice man of always pleasure to talk to when we visit, he was crying and shaking these hours later becuase he see the man and heard him screaming just before he strike car. So did the woman across the street and they try to comfort each other and so did my sister but she was scared and upset and could not help.
This man and woman across street and the others whom we do not know at time, they say he scream high scream until hitting car and they were all very upset. So I have heard of this sad happening. Always I feel for the man and the others who died. This was when I was young teenage girl but I have never forgotten hearing of this tragedy and the man who was flyign throughthe air and screaming and the ones hurt by this witness.
Trey153 said on Monday, July 21, 2008, 22:51
Sad stuff Blanca, that confirms the story even further. I am a certified flight instructor and believe me, I’ve been looking extra careful in the sky around me ever since I read this site.
Tristin Burkholdt said on Tuesday, July 22, 2008, 12:28
My father was an investigator in this crash. He was about mid-career when this happened and told me once that it was the worst accident investigation he had ever conducted and almost thought about leaving NTSB in the months following. He did not.
Father worked on a small team that more or less sequenced the events on the ground. He’s since past away but would be fascinated to read some of these accounts.
He told us around that Christmas time in ‘78 that “no human being should see another human being conditioned like that” and I paraphrase. He said the tally of individual body parts exceeded 10,300 “bagged and tagged.” It was a very destructive impact.
He had to help remove a teenage or very young man from a home’s kitchen. The body literally landed with the victim still in the chair, in the upright position in front of the man’s oven, facing it as if looking to see what was cooking. He had many nightmares over that. The stories of incontinence are true as Said he felt bad for the boy because he had “peed himself.”
He went on to conduct other investigations, mostly small aircraft, and one moe big one, Cerritos in 1986, but never forgot PSA Flight 182 and considered it his worst job.
Eric Barnes said on Tuesday, July 22, 2008, 12:53
My old bro from the Air Force, Sig Sturdivant, his mom and pop lived on a street right near there. We were at Misawa Air Base Japan when this crash happened so we missed it but in November we took leave together so we could get back to the states and see the Chargers and Rams back-to back weekends.
Anyhow, Sturdy and I stayed at his parents house and we walked over to that site. It was little compared to what I thought it might look like. That one street is pretty small, short. Anyhow, Sturdy and I walked down an alley to see what was up and he found, two months later, some metal aircraft parts, small ones, and a little finger, down the bone, they must’ve missed it on clean up. Being the upright dude he was he turned that all over to the police.
Sturdy’s mom and pop didn’t see the crash but they heard it. Told is it sounded like a nuke. They thought San Dog was getting pounded by the Soviets! Ha!
Anton said on Tuesday, July 22, 2008, 15:24
North Park was here I came out of the closet and embraced my life. I moved there from Iowa in January ‘77 when NP was still an underground scene for the most part. Being a gay male back then was much differnt than today. And I was only 27 at the time. Still, I felt an acceptance there and really started getting comfortable. The neighborhood had such great vibes.
When that crash happened I was at work in Old Town. I lived near therem off of Texas, but not close enough to be allowed home. When I finally did get off shift, I rushed over there for some reason, bypassing the apartment altogether and going staight to the scene of the crash. I actually didn’t get any further than about a block west of Boundary but close enough to smell that jet fuel/burned flesh/burned homes odor that was just acrid and sickening. Many people were milling about and I will be honest, it had a bit of the carnival atmosphere on those streets west of Boundary. The police were quite busy trying to keep people back and away and seemed focused on making sure residents who actually lived in the area could get about.
I stayed there until 10 PM just watching the activity.
I’ll never forget seeing a Channel 8 news man leaving for the night, walking away in tears.
It was a tragic, awful day in our great neighborhood and I was always pleased NP’s underground gay community was so helpful in the days to come, working in a number of matters for the residents around Dwight, Boundary, and Nile.
Liz Pacini said on Tuesday, July 22, 2008, 15:29
My best friend’s Sister, from Sacramento, was killed in this accident. I just learned that last weekend. I knew she was dead, just not why or how. She worked for PSA.
Sad. Terrible.
Epps said on Tuesday, July 22, 2008, 15:34
Back then we banged in the gangs. Way lower key than today but we banged around anyhow. My best friend Shaun punked on some rings and wallets and the like and then felt real bad about it. I thought it was sick and took no part. But some of my boys were down there stealing. Whatever. I stepped aside on that one. They capped on me pretty hard for not punking with them that day, but you have to draw the line on something like that.
Shaun ended up real sad for punking those peoples things.
Kelli Andersen said on Wednesday, July 23, 2008, 15:26
I heard about the flying/screaming man when my husband and I moved into the neighborhood in 1996. There were only a couple people on Nile still living there (that we knew of at least) who were around when this crash took place. One of them told us about this guy as she actually saw it happen. Nice lady, forget her name. She lived on Nile facing West, about four or five houses down from Dwight. She said she was tending to her plants in the front yard when this crash happened. She actually saw the whole event start to finish. She said when the plane impacted she threw herself to the grass instinctively. The man in question flew past instantly when the “big hole ripped open after the wing hit the house on the corner of Nile and Dwight” and she described him as screaming “like a cat in a cat fight”, arms out stretched, prone. Yes, she said Superman. He went further down the street and hit a car with a thud sound she said she’d never forget. She used to describe it as like throwing hamburger meat down on the counter.
And yes, she told us she peed her pants but why is that such a big deal to everyone here? What would you expect seeing something like that and nearly dying in the process.
She was STILL having nightmares on occasion when we moved down to Chula Vista in 2003.
Phillip Van Vleet said on Thursday, July 24, 2008, 8:29
A couple years ago my brother showed me a small twisted piece of airframe about the size of a piece of 8.5 by 11 paper. He lifted it from the scene when he was 13 years old. I was only two when this happend. We lived on Boundary. He kept it hidden and a secret for years and then one day just blurted out he had it. I started researching this crash a couple weeks ago and found this blog.
You have to wonder how much material is out there with all the looting that took place and the kids and adults running around. You have to question what he was thinking that day but he was a kid.
Also, there was a post in this blog about a PSA flight attendant on another flight who had her feet molested by an errant foot fetish passenger. I guess he freaked out and pulled her shoes off and tickled her toes midflight. Well, that just happend to be my dentist in Pacific Beach and he was an odd duck, always looking at my mother’s sandaled feet and toes when we came in for an appointment and he had a red, high heel shoe on his desk for a paper weight. My mother would never let me go to that dentist again afterthis happened and amazingly he was still in practice or back in practice anyhow, a few years later when I graduated college with his daughter in my graduating class.
Those are my two PSA stories. Oh, and we used to live on Mt. Blackburn Avenue, down the street from a PSA mechanic who knew people on that flight, and threw up in his front yard and went to his knees when he was on his way to his car to rush down to Lindbergh when this story hit the news that morning. I didn’t see that happen but my Mom did. Mnay people suffered that day.
Greg said on Saturday, July 26, 2008, 18:56
Memorial observance this September? – Has anyone heard of, or does anyone know who might have information regarding, any kind of memorial service or observance on the 30th anniversary? Thank you very much.
John said on Saturday, July 26, 2008, 19:12
Although I did not live in San Diego, (I lived up in the bay area at the time) I can still remember that picture on the news and the newspaper at the age of 12…it was haunting. That picture (and the 79 crash in Chicago) terrifed me of flying for years. After reading several NTSB books over the years its too bad that MOST accidents are due to pilot error and plain just goofing around. The Pilots of 182 had a greater responsibity to all those passengers and by being so careless basically let them all die. Weather is one thing…mechanical failure is another…but nothing chaps me more than to read when Pilots/or ATC towers make huge mistakes. The bottom line on this accident…the pilots were busy talking to off duty employees and not paying attention to what the hell was going on. My heart goes out to the families of victims that were murdered by a few …
Dave said on Sunday, July 27, 2008, 17:37
UPDATE from posting on January 4, 2008
I will be in San Diego the first and last weeks of September to film interviews and location footage for my Documentary film “Return to Dwight and Nile: The Story of PSA Flight 182″.
This blog is filled with many compelling stories about that tragic day. If you would like to contact me to learn more about my film or if you would like to talk more about your memories from the crash, please email me at specwrite@aol.com.
Thanks, Dave
K.J. said on Monday, July 28, 2008, 14:10
While I lived in San Diego County at the time (and still do), I haven’t any personal connection to the tragedy and have only a vague memory of it.
What I wish to share is this: This morning, after having murky dreams, I abruptly awakened with only one thought in mind, “I must learn about the plane crash that happened in North Park in the late 1970’s.” The thought was all-consuming and obsessive. I have never had an experience like this before.
I immediately did a Google search on my computer, read about the facts on Wikipedia, and then discovered this website.
I have no idea why I had this strange experience this morning, or what it could possibly mean. I’ve never posted a comment on a website before, but I had such a strong desire to reach out and share this with others.
By chance, has anyone else had a recent similar experience with regard to this tragedy?
RICK FERGUSON said on Tuesday, July 29, 2008, 9:48
I lived in San Diego at the time of the crash. I did not know anyone on the plane but like alot of people it affected me. I lived in O.B. at the time and for a long time jets going over my apartment made me shutter. In 1993 I left San Diego and returned to my native state of Ohio. I now reside in Michigan. About 3 weeks before leaving on vacation this summer, [Las Vegas and San Diego] I started researching the crash, I’m not sure why, but I decided to visit the crash site. On July 25, 2008 I parked my rental car and walked down Dwight St. one side then the other. I can’t decribe the feeling I got. If you look hard enough you can see some signs of the crash, mostly the homes are a little newer than those of a block or two away. I said a prayer as I walked not only for the victums of the crash but for everyone affected by it including some of the people who have posted on this site. I guess for me after 30 years it was time to finally put it to rest. I’m thankful I made the journey.
Rey Lopez said on Tuesday, July 29, 2008, 10:24
Lived on Nile back then. Just a kid, really. 18 yes, but still living at home and bumming around trying to figure out what I wanted to do after graduating from high school that year. I worked part-time at Taco Bell and went to the beach a lot.
I was home the day of the crash. I was playing my new KISS record on my little record player in my room when all of a sudden bam! Huge explosion sound and the house shook violently, windows rattling, stuff fell off the shelf all that. I’ll never forget that awful loud bam! What a shock wave!
So I jumped up and threw on some jeans and a T because I thought we were getting bombed or something and ran out to look. Man! Looking north, up Nile, just a huge column of black smoke was shooting into the air and all manner of paper and debris was fluttering through the air, you could smell this awful jet fuel smell and even feel the heat from that roaring ball of flame down there, and I mean screaming, awful screaming as people ran outside their houses and all around in circles almost.
The guy next door looked like he’d seen a ghost. He didn’t see the plane crash but just stood there silently looking up Nile with a look of terror on his face.
The guy that was called the flying man here, he was the first of two bodies I saw. He was up the street about five houses on the west side of Nile. He flew right into the back of a car and his legs were sticking out the back window, his arms and head were all torn up and bloodied up bad. Most of the top of his head was crushed inward but you could make out his face and see his eyes wide open and mouth open, so yeah, I think he was screaming.
Also, this one woman, a pedestrian with a baby stroller, she was decapitated. Looked liek she was leaning into a car and got hit by another flying body. Halh her body was in the car, the other half was outside it. Her babies you couldn’t see but I heard later they got killed.
That was it for me. My mom grabbed me and my grandmother and we got out of there, drove down to San Ysidro to hang with my Uncle the rest of the day and the next day until about 4 PM. I hated going home it was so scary and sad.
Really a bad, bad experience.
I ended up going to Southwest a couple years and then started driving truck. I moved to Oceanside in ‘85 and lived there until ‘93. Now I am back over in Chula and I drive my truck past there on I-805 a couple days a week on my current run, which takes me right by there on the way to National. I think about it often.
It really was the worst day in SD. Right up there with the fires and the McDonald’s shooting in ‘84. My bro knew the manager of that McDonald’s so these all hit close to home.
Peace to all,
Rey
Sherri said on Tuesday, July 29, 2008, 11:09
When I was young and in college I had a brief relationship with a flight attendant on PSA Flight 182. Because we were girls and just experimenting, I’ll not mention her name. I do not know if she came out of the closet a I did in ‘81, or was simply curious with me at the time.
She was a wonderfully exuberant, classy, and simply fun young lady and we had a summer of intensity the year before. She was bright, sensitive, tender, and very loving. I surmise her life would have been a joyous one, filled with achievement and happiness.
We used to laugh about a colleague of hers mentioned here, the flight attendant who had her feet molested. We were both fetish for that sort of thing and joked we were jealous! Of course, we would hope it to be a woman.
She had big plans for PSA, hoping to eventually move into the office there at Lindbergh. I think she would have gone far.
I cried for days upon learning of her death. She was a special girl.
Today I live in Oakland, Ca. and practice family law. I miss San Diego (I left after graduating from UC) and think of the city often. And her.
Bless this site for allowing us to recall.
Ed Archiola said on Tuesday, July 29, 2008, 12:20
We had a guy on our bowling team who had a body go right through the side of his house on Boundary and land in his living room. He thought the person still might be alive, even though they had all four missing limbs, because for like two straight minutes, the body would shudder every few seconds and the lips would slightly move and eyes dart about and the head would turn left to right.
I always found this entirely disturbing but that guy had been in Nam and seen a ton so I guess he handled it ok. He was in his garage and came in to see this man in this condition. I asked him what he thought had happened and he said he was so shocked he didn’t know what to think and just stared. He said his heart was pounding though. Man, I’ll never forget him telling us this. He had a writer of some book interview him one time about it, but the guy changed up the story to make the man a woman. He was always peeved that he gave this man some time and he took a real event and changed it up.
Monica Ware said on Wednesday, July 30, 2008, 8:10
I heard about that body in the house. My father was an SDPD cop, off duty that day too. But since he lived off of University not far from the crash, he went over there to help. He said he took a report and helped the guys “bag, tag, zip, and ship” a body that landed in a living room. I’ll bet it is this body Ed posted about. He said there was some thought the person was alive briefly.Got to be this incident posted. Wow. I wasn’t around when this happened. I was born in Dec.’82 in Chula but my parents told me about this crash more than once. My Mom was a school teacher in Serra Mesa at the time and she said you could see the smoke from the site over that way.She had no idea her husband was working a plane disaster until she got home that afternoon and he had left a note. Dad was really upset about this crash she said. He even took a week off from work and they went to Hawaii just to “clear his head.” He said there were internal organs and decapitated victims “all over the place.” OMG!! I would be so sick to deal with that.
Monica
DK Vowinkle said on Wednesday, July 30, 2008, 8:45
People on that plane knew what was happening. They had twenty seconds. We found about a dozen seats soaked in urine. Had to be awful. I worked that disaster for three days and never, EVER, wanted to do another one. I did do a small plane crash at Brown a few years later but even though the wreckage was pretty twisted up, the guy lived. I hate plane crashes and I am glad I am retired now. PSA 182 was a horrible, horrible, horrible disaster in Sand Dog. People’s faces, what few were not all torn up, had such a look of fear in them. Eyes wide open, mouths open. I’ll never forget it. And I hope itnever happens in SD or anyhwere again. Sadly, it will.
Greg said on Wednesday, July 30, 2008, 19:25
I gather there were memorial observances on the 10th and 20th anniversaries of the PSA 182 crash, and I am wondering if anyone knows whether there will be anything on September 25, 2008? – Has anyone heard of, or does anyone know who might have information regarding, any kind of memorial service or observance on the 30th anniversary? Thank you very much.
Randy Shannon said on Thursday, July 31, 2008, 7:58
The cop that told one of the posters here that people were alive after the crash is exaggerating it sounds like. Nearly everyone was killed instantly and mutilated in impact. However, there were reports of a handful, less than a dozen if I recall correctly, victims from the plane who were either heard screaming (such as the flying superman) or were in various stages of death following the crash, such as uncontrollable twitching, spastic movements, eyes darting about, or in one case an eyewitness to a victim that moved slightly back and forth, left to right, smashed onto her back after impacting a lawn on Boundary.
Most of this stuff was either not given to the media or deliberately kept from them due to the extremely disturbing nature of these reports. I was working Public Affairs for Western Airlines at the time and was sentto assist our friends at PSA with the overwhelming workload in the affairs office in the days after this crash.I think I was there through Thursday that week before returning to my normal duties. I heard several accounts of this from people at the crash site.
Several of the photos I saw of the handful of whole victims clearly showed a wetting/soiling of the pants as well. So those accounts here reconcile with what we saw.
It was a gruesome event.
Amber Lei Marshall said on Thursday, July 31, 2008, 12:16
Lots of body parts that day. My Aunt Josy has personal pictures of the crash scene she took and in them you can clearly make out a lot of internal organs and severed limbs around the street and in the yards. It was very sickening, but she took the photos for insurance purposes. Her house received damage you see. She was sick to her stomach and had bad dreams for many years. She recently left North Park to an assisted living in Chula.
Steven Dietz said on Thursday, July 31, 2008, 15:43
TO: Poster Randy Shannon.
I think you are right. The Police Officer may have exagerated. In also keeping with what the other retired Police Oficer / poster responded that the idea of survivors for even a short amount of time was untrue.
However it is now appearing that there must have been some truth to it. Either way it is not good to think too hard on the most horrible aspects of that day.
I hope to meet some of you at the site on the anniversary.
Gabby Moraes-Sanfelice said on Friday, August 1, 2008, 8:15
I was told by my grandfather that some of the neighbors said that a couple people were still moving on the ground for like a minute. He said it was liek three people and they were tore up he said, but moving. But he said it was their brains still functioning for like a few seconds. I doubt they were laying there going “oh I just was in a plane crash.” Nada. No way. Grandfather was a SDFD Fire Captain there. He told us about the man who flew into the back of the car too and said that the neighbors said the man was screaming like a pig for like a second or two. This is the first I ever read of this anywhere but I too can say I heard of this craziness. So I am thinking it happened. Too many know about it. Also, grandfather said that one ofthe pilots, his body was one of the whole bodies that did not get tore up much because he covered him. He said he was just laying there dead but not really tore. My grandfather since past on but he always remember this sad day. His wife,my step-grandma, she still alive in San Ysidro but she won’t talk of this. She said it hurt my grandfather to see all that craziness.
Ok all, Gabby
Eduardo Villareal said on Friday, August 1, 2008, 11:48
I hear many will gather at Dwight and Nile and Boundary this Sept. 25 at 9 A.M. There will be some news crews there too. We plan on going. My wife’s sister was killed in this crash, a PSA Flight Attendant. We have never been to the crash site out of respect to the neighbors there. But this year is different. We shall go, briefly, and say a prayer. My wife’s sister would be, I believe, 54 this year. She was a great person. My wife’s family was much saddened and never have forgotten her.
Ryan said on Saturday, August 2, 2008, 21:16
These accounts of that day are amazing. I can’t even imagine the devastation. It seems there were many witnesses. I’ve lived in SD for 5 years now and I don’t recall it getting to 100 degress…..I’m sure it made the recovery efforts much more difficult.
Enrique said on Sunday, August 3, 2008, 15:50
I worked for PSA from 1974 to 1988. During this time we had two crashes and I knew people on both flights. Flight 1771 was the second crash, happening in Dec. 1987. This too was a great tragedy. I knew flight attendants on both. I was based in Sacramento during both crashes, but they hit close to home. The morning of the San Diego crash, in Sacramento, our counter was in shock. Devastated is more like it. Tears and sorrow. We saw mnay of those killed that morning. The whole rest of the day at our counter we could hardly function and added to it, the media! The media never left all day. I was so sick.
Carrie said on Sunday, August 3, 2008, 23:20
I don’t know why I think about this tragedy so often. I was only 2 years old when this took place. I have read all I can find on line about this fate full day. I feel as K.J. does (July 28, 2008). I don’t know why I care so much but I do. I pride myself on being born and raised in San Diego and take ownership of this city and it’s history in a very passionate way. I used to feel bad that I read the details of the crash with such attention, but realize that others share the same unexplainable feelings as well. Last month my husband got a job in Arizona and we moved our family here.I will be driving into San Diego for the 30 year anniversary of the crash. I wish there was a place we could gather to pay our respects and share our memories and feelings of this day. I drove to the crash site on the morning of Sept. 25th last year and did not see a single person there. I was so sad at this. Also I read an article about the man who is planning to do a documentary on PSA 182. I wish him the best and am glad to see that someone is taking initiative to do this. I will check back periodically to see if anyone is planning a memorial. It is never o.k. to forget anyone lost. For what it’s worth, they matter to me.
Alexander said on Monday, August 4, 2008, 10:08
I remember this day well. Chaos! I was a gardner back then and working a neighborhood in Chula Vista. I looked North and could see tremendous smoke. I paid no attention after that. Then, a couple hours later, when I got to my next client, she and her elderly husband were watching the news. They had me into their living room and we had lunch and watched the news coverage for like an hour. I was shocked! I thought, well that was the smoke I saw. I went back to work and finished my job but could not stop thinking about the crash. Later, when I got home, I watched on the news until 10 PM. Then I slept restlessly. It was an awful bad day in San Diego. I have been to the crash site but no deliberately. In 1987 I had a client on Boundary about three houses down from Dwight. It was the first house that was not ruined in the crash on that block. I knew the owner had lived there at the time of the crash but said nothing to him. He never said a word. I had that client for a year or two and it never came up in conversation but I always felt odd there. I later found out from my partner who took over the account tha man had a body fly into his bedroom and basically the head exploded inside there so that the room had to be recarpeted and repainted. I am glad I never talked about it with that man.
MrM said on Tuesday, August 5, 2008, 14:20
To Carrie & K.J.
I agree with you both. I drive past the site on I-805 every day and have done so for many years. Its only recently that the place has started calling to me prompting me to visit this site.
I was 7 when the Flight 182 Crash happened. I remember it clearly though I lived in National City at the time and not in the actual vicinity of the crash site. I was sick and home from school that day. It was very hot from what I remember.
I saw a flash, heard a boom, and went to look outside to see the ominous black pillar of smoke coming up into the sky. We didn’t know what it was, my mom and me.
Channel 10 came on a few minutes later and said there had been a crash.
On scene news reporters were taking pictures of the mahem and I saw what my 7 year old mind interpreted as ‘manikin’ parts.
My mother got a look of total horror on her face and ran to cover the screen with her body. She said direly to me that I should go play in my room.
Somehow, later that night, I figured out that they were victims. The scene affected me for years afterward and still does today.
My heart still aches and now that I have read these first hand accounts of what real witnesses saw that day and especially for those that lost loved ones that day…its like I’m back there again, 7 years old.
God bless all you who have suffered and I do encourage you to go and visit the site and make your peace there. I may do so myself this time around.
For those that passed due to the crash, Father God watches over them in His love, but I’m sure that us paying our respects to them and that day is appreciated greatly.
Mr B said on Tuesday, August 5, 2008, 16:01
Does anyone know if the plane hit nose first or the side?
Just curious as to why bodies were flown everywhere.
Gabe said on Wednesday, August 6, 2008, 8:49
To answer Mr B’s question, there was an earlier post from a man nicknamed Irish, an investigator at the crash scene. My Dad interviewed him July 28th for a story on the 30th anniversary you’ll all be seeing. I learned of this crash when Dad told us about it that night. I am only 17 so I was certainly not around then! Fascinating blog here. Anyhow, Dad interviewed Irish and about three others involved in aviation. Here was what Irish reported:
“The aircraft impacted at a near 60 degree angle, nose to the right if you will, approximatley 30 feet to the left of Dwight Street, striking a house roof top. Disintegration began miliseconds later as the nose came into contact with the home’s concrete garage floor. This caused the lefy side of the airframe to “blow out†if you will like popping a plastic shopping bag. Passengers on that side of the airframe were distributed outward and upward across a 60 degree field of dispersion in excess of 200 miles per hours. Most were dismembered in the initial outward trajectory, some still attached to their seats.”
Also, Dad explained to me just now, the reason people saw body parts on TV live was that it was actually not live, but tape, rushed back to Channel 10, and aired unedited. A man was fired at Channel 10 for doing that. Channel 8 did the sme thing. Dad was only 20 and living in Milwaukee when this crash happened, but he knows all about it now. He reviewed original tape and said there was even a brief view of a headless body smashed into the side of a house. Today that would never happnen on live TV he said. They are very careful. Back then it was not as sophisticated and reporters were not as careful.
Dr. Rick Moblee said on Wednesday, August 6, 2008, 8:57
Bodies galore that day. Everywhere. Internal organs all over the streets and on the sides of houses. Brain matter on cars. Fingers, toes, eyes, ears. You name it. I know. I did bag, tag, zip,and ship. There were only four whole bodies to recover, one was a flight attendant, the other the First Officer. Two passengers looked as if they just sat down and died. Literally, no markings on them. That always amazed me because most everyone looked as if they had gone through a shredder. Fear had to have been a factor as previously posted here. A couple flight attendants remains clearly revealed they had wet their pants. I always felt so bad.
Anne said on Wednesday, August 6, 2008, 10:57
Wow. I can’t believe the number of people still affected by this horrible tragedy. I was watching Mad Men this week and the subject was crash of AA #1 in 1962 and it got me thinking about 182. A little research and I found you all. I have many memories of this horrible day and it’s aftermath. In fact, I have been diagnosed with post traumatic stress syndrome as a result of what happened on that day and the weeks that followed. I was on 805 when it went down. To this day, I see that image, you see it and know there is no hope, and you can only wonder what the folks in that plane must have experienced, their last few moments of life. For me, I developed severe fear of flying from that moment. It’s not that I’m afraid to die as much as I’m afraid of those last few moments of sheer terror. As I write this, my heart starts to pound uncontrollably. To this day, I can only fly on Xanax. How do you explain to people that no matter how long the flight, you spend every moment wondering when the impact will come and you’ll start that dive. It haunts me to this day.
I remember getting home (I lived about a mile from site) and turning on the TV. There was a reporter on site who was reporting live – quite soon after the crash. You could see he was in shock. I remember seeing film that night of the huge crowds at the blood bank. Before we all realized the horror – that no one had survived. But people felt so helpless.
I had to fly back to San Jose 3 days later for my grandfather’s funeral. Getting checked in, I had an extraordinary encounter with the ticket agent. We had this intense, immediate bond. He took a break after checking me in, we had coffee. I ended up dating him for several years. Thing was, he lived in LA and worked in SD. 182 was the flight he took to get to work but the day was so nice, he decided to go the beach and take a later flight. Working with him through that grief was tough. He lost many friends.
At the same time, I was a youth counselor for the SD Probation Dept. We had a good report with SDPD and they would drop by our office just to chat. We saw several of these guys over the next few weeks who were first responders. Their trauma was *unbelievable*. My most vivid memory was the description of having to pull a face (not a head, just the skin) off a tree.
So, besides seeing it, I was closely involved with someone who was supposed to be the plane, and had many intimate discussions listening to unedited descriptions of the scene.
All in all, I was overwhelmed with it. And it still haunts me. I’m glad to see I’m not crazy to still be haunted by this – apparently lots of folks feel like I do.
Thanks for letting me vent.
David Greenwald said on Wednesday, August 6, 2008, 14:54
Thing about that day, if you were involved in any way, you were in trauma of some type for weeks, if not months, or years. Some of us have never gotten past it.
I worked it and was in and out of therapy until 1983! I still have the odd nightmare now and then.
Things happened to human bodies in that crash that seemed just not to be natural. It was awful. Things like a female torso who was turned completely around so that her chin rested on her back, eyes wide open. No blood on the back or head mind you, just a complete 180. Go figure. Or, yes, the amount of human feces that had obviously been deposited in trousers and panties on the way down, because you knew those people were terrified. It was just a horrible thing nobody should have to go through and I, for one, got out of the fire service because of it and started carrying mail.
Jeff said on Wednesday, August 6, 2008, 18:38
Interesting reads…
What I would like to know is if there are any strange happenings at the site, much like the trailer park in Chicago where 191 went down. Any spiritual stories or hauntings by the residents in the area. I wish someone could get some interviews with current residents..whom I am sure most did not live in the area at the time.
Dano said on Thursday, August 7, 2008, 9:16
Having lost a lovely lady I knew in this crash. I’m re-connecting as we all face the 30 year mark of this terrible day. It is interesting, albiet disturbing to see all the disscussion about defecation and urination of the passengers and crew. Being with the CHP for over 24 years mostly in N.Ca. I have seen more than my share of carnage and grief. Just not to scale that this crash left for responders and witnesses to deal with. I found many fatal crash victims had their bowels and bladders drained after they impacted and many of them never knew what was about to happen. I personally experienced a crash while sitting in my parked patrol unit where I was rearended by a pickup going 70+. I saw the truck coming and had enough time to tense up and think This is it Baby !! much like Captain McFeron before my lights went out. When I came to, the FD was cutting me out of the unit. I looked down and realized I had wet myself. I did not have time to do that before the impact. Heck, passed out drunks do it all the time so there is really no way to know who was so scared they did let it all go or it happened on impact and cesation of life. What is important to remember is how much PSA 182 affected the living victims >The families, friends and emergency responders who still have to deal with horribly vivid memories of that fateful day. I have special empathy for the cockpit crews families for they have had to deal with not only grief but a certain amount of guilt that comes with knowing their loved one had role in causing this avoidable disaster. I’ll end this by saying my closure really came several years ago when I went to the memorial plaque at the aerospace museum and ran my fingers across the letters and then gently kissed her name. I prefer to remember how Gail Lynn Shapiro lived her life not how she died. God Bless All !!
Lou said on Thursday, August 7, 2008, 9:20
To answer Jeff’s question, I have never personally heard of any “hauntings” or other unusual occurances of a supernatural nature in the neighborhood. However, about two years after the crash, when one of the rebuilt buildings there on Dwight and Boundary contained a dentist office instead of a residence, a friend of mine on Nile said a couple patients reported to have heard screaming people when nobody in the building as panicked or had reason to scream….in other words a quiet, basic day at the dentist. So who knows? I have my doubts personally.
The only actually screams heard that day in 1978 came from 1) the flying superman who was clearly heard screaming at an awful pitch and 2) Many of the residents who survived the crash into their neighborhood.
Nobody knows what it sounded like inside the plane on the way down. We can only surmise. My guess is there was a lot of chaos and screaming as evidenced by the number of remains with wet and/or pooped pants as reported here and witnessed by me as well. So there must have been screaming too, and perhaps there is some truth to this supernatural report out of that dentist office.
Nick Consani said on Thursday, August 7, 2008, 9:46
I lived across the hall from a flight attendant killed in PSA Flight 182. An apartment complex off of Mission Gorge Road. I’ll leave her name out of it, but she was sweet. I moved into that complex in August ‘76 when I got my first job with an accounting firm in Mission Valley. She moved in about a year later. I’ll never forget that day. I was at work when the plane crashed, wondered if she was on it, and fretted all day. When I got home early that evening and saw a stack of flowers piled up around her door and patio I knew. I felt so empty. She should have been home there that evening just like me. I remember she hadleft a pair of sandals on the patio floor that sat there for a month or more until her place was finally cleared out. I used to stop and look at those sandals every time I came home and felt so bad. She was a nice woman and seemed to have many friends.
Marshall Larrabee said on Thursday, August 7, 2008, 12:34
All this talk about the passengers being horrified as the plane went down and going potty in their pants and stuff, so what? What you expect? Of course, all that happened and it is quite normal. It had to have been utterly terrifying. I have been there. In the 1980’s I was on an a Texas International Airlines flight that hit major turbulance outside of Dallas and we plummeted serveral thousand feet in just a matter of 30-seconds or so. The feeling was like that of when you go down a rolelr coaster steeply. We were almost weightless it seemed. Everyone was screaming and crying and when we leveled off some people threw up. And not in air sickness bags!
Then there was the stench that filled the cabin as we made our emergency landing back in Dallas. Dozens of us pissed or crapped in our pants. What do you expect? We thought we were going to die in seconds!
We made it safely in and nobody, I mean NOBODY, said a word to us about our soiled clothes or the crying or vomiting. That’s life. Natural human reaction to sudden and intense fear. So what? Guess what? People get scared, they suffer, they wet themselves. Why such a big deal on this blog about it?
Anyhow, I survived a near certain fatal plane diaster and have been fascinated with them ever since. This one is just horrible. I live in Houston and forgot about this crash but I do have some recall of hearing about it in the news. I would have been just 16 when this happened.
Purnell said on Thursday, August 7, 2008, 15:18
My cousin Ron Jon talked about this back in the day before he passed on. He stayed on Boundary with my Aunt Felicia (his mother) back then. He was in high school I believe, or just got out. I know he went in the Navy for 20 years not long after this though. He was a Vet and that from the first war in Iraq. Anyhow, he’s dead now, passed on from cancer. But back in the day he talked about this with my boys and stuff when we hung out at his Mother’s house right there on Boundary. She passed on in ‘92. But anyhow, that house was right down the street from where this plane hit you see. RJ was at home and he said when that plane went in he thought a bomb went off and even grabbed his piece before he walked out the door! He said it was a mess, bodies and body parts laid out in the street like that, and smoke and fire and that. He STILL thought it was a bomb until he saw him a piece of wing and then Aunt Felicia, she start screaming because she said a “man is in our backyard! A man is in our backyard!” He goes back there with his piece but what she meant was a man in his airplane seat was smashed into the grasss back there and half his head was tore off. RJ said blood was still spurting out of the neck onto the porch concrete right there and the man ’s body was shaking like or “jolting” he used to call it, and he freaked out. He said he was real scared man. He ran Aunt Felicia back in the houe and then he up and called the Po! But they told him don’t worry we know about it. Your hosue on fire or anything? He said no. So they told him to stay put and he did! Aunt Felicia was crying and that. Oh man, what those two went through with that. RJ said that later on like toward dark the Po come in there and take that whole seat, body still in it, and wrap it up in a yellow tarp and off it go. They didn’t have the heart to clean up the blood on the porch and had the yardman do it for them. Crazy days. RJ always talked about this and was really sad about the whole thing. He was hella cool and would say a prayer for them on Sept. 25th. He was hella cool like that.
Sheila Delgado said on Friday, August 8, 2008, 14:55
As a person (me too Marshall!) who has survived a plane scare herself, trust me, you don’t want to go there. It’s pure terror because you know you have no control of the situation and everything happens so suddenly. I was on a Continental flight over Colorado that had an engine failure and we lost altitude, the oxygen masks came down, and we all thought we were history. Everyone and I mean EVERYONE was scared pissless and I mean literally so get over it people. You wet your pants. Trust me. So kudos to Marshall for telling folks to stop focusing on that. The mess in your panties or ahem, underwear, is the least of your concerns. We were all praying and crying and hoping beyond hope something positive would happen and guess what? It did. We too landed safely but had to evacuate the aircraft down the slide and I sprained my wrist in doing so, thus I was one of two casualties, the other being a gentleman a row ahead of me who sprained his ankle. Guess what? Best pain we ever felt! We laughed and embraced over it on the tarmac! That these people on 182 had no such option only adds to my sorrow for them and their families. I do remember this crash, although I was just in the sixth grade in Scripps Ranch then.
Marshall said on Saturday, August 9, 2008, 3:17
I have to agree with Marshall L. and Sheila, I wish people would not be so bent on the fact that people wet their pants. Like it’s been said it’s only natural, when a person is struck hard with the shock of terror it’s almost as if you let go of everything even your mind, you can’t speak, think or move. when I have got into car crashes I’ve almost wet myself because of the fear and not knowing what the end result was, but the passengers and the crew of flight 182 knew what the end result was gonna be. I was on a pocket bike 4 years ago more like a mini motorcycle smaller than the average kids bicycle that was capable of going 40mph+, I was being silly speeding up and down 35th st. with no helment and my body weight shifted while going about 30mph and it came from under me. I tried to jump up and run which is impossible at 30mph so me and the bike tumbled about 20ft while traffic was behind me catching a glimpse of cars trying to avoid me, I felt helpless because had no control over what was happening until I stopped and when it was all over getting up with a very bad limp,,,,yeah I kinda wet myself and didn’t realize it until my brother told me. I was scared crapless becuase I didn’t know if I would be struck by a car or not so it happens get over it. We shouldn’t dwell on the details especially details of that nature, we should share memories and how the victims of 182 lived their lives. It’s just a word of advice.
Marshall
Carol Blake said on Saturday, August 9, 2008, 14:46
I have to agree with both Marshall’s and Sheila D. Some of the others here bothered by the fact some passengers on the plane peed their pants should just let go of it. Very normal. You just have to accept the fact these people had twenty seconds of sheer terror and it was then over for them. That’s the way it was for them. There is no sugar coating their demise.
I saw pictures of some victims in the mid-80’s when I interned at Coroners. It was part of my OJT. Yeah, sure, their were a couple flight attendants and a passenger who had peed spots in their crotch area and pant legs but we didn’t even think about that. We were focused on the fact they came through that impact relatively whole. Most of the other pictures were what we called at the time “gooky.” Fact: 144 people. Over 10,300 labled, individual remains out of that original 144. That ought to tell you something. It was a horrific smash into the neighborhood. The worst I have ever seen and I have now done four passenger crashes and one military into civilian neighborhood. Nothing, NOTHING, was as destructive as the fuselage to 182. Consider it was first compressed from nose to rear airstairs and then exploded to the left in .00829 seconds. It is amazing we had four whole occupants at all. Utterly amazing. The fact they had a wetting accident in their pants on the way down is superficial and irrelevant to this entire discussion.
Joseph said on Sunday, August 10, 2008, 6:11
I mean no disrespect, but I was wondering. Since the bodies were terribly fragmented, and a previous post states there were 10,300 catalogued parts, was there only a small number of family members that were able to get the bodies back? I imagine back then there was no DNA testing. Was there a mass grave? What happened? Again, no disrespect to anyone that died or to those that died that day.
Joseph
XP said on Sunday, August 10, 2008, 17:27
was the crash avoidable? I know one engine was destroyed but shouldn’t it be able to fly with one?
Randy said on Monday, August 11, 2008, 23:20
In answer to XP, I believe most would agree, yes, this was an avoidable mid-air collison, and I think reports placed the PSA crew at fault. Also, I believe it was not just the engine damage, but the collision also caused some hydraulics damage which made the aircraft uncontrollable. I am sure anyone more experienced in the aviation profession could elaborate.
I am 45 years old, and I have had a life-long interest in aviation my entire life, and I have followed with great interest many many airline accidents, but for some reason, the crash of PSA 182 has haunted my mind for the last 3 decades like no other aviation accident. I really don’t know why.
Dale Cherry said on Tuesday, August 12, 2008, 8:18
I had a co-worker at the time who’s girlfriend witnesed this crash. She was out jogging a few blocks away and watched the whole thing happen from what she figured a quarter mile or so away. She always told of one disturbing scene in which she said an entire leg from hip to foot sort of “boomeranged” up and through the air upon impact almost in slow motion and sort of lazily landed on a roof top. Apparently she as physically ill over it. I met her once in Spring ‘79 at aparty in PB and she was seeking counseling at the time. She turn and ran away from the scene in a panic and was helped by a passing motorist who obviously saw she was in distress.
Norton Kempsted said on Tuesday, August 12, 2008, 10:21
As an aeronautical engineer, I once studied this crash to gain an understanding of the physics associated with fuselage compression and destruction. This was years ago, probably 1983 or so. But what I recall of the extreme compromise of the fuselage was that at one point, for approx. ten thousandths of a second, the actual fuselage was compressed to a length of approx. 17 feet, and a circ of approx 11 feet, within this compressed tube, if you will, with an internal pressure inside that is immeasurable to modern instrument or any computer analysis possible, were the occupants of the plane. So this should give you some understanding as to the extreme mutilation of the passengers. Yes, it is true, four were found fully intact, which is almost inexplicable by physical standards. The rest were pulverized and dispersed, generally, to the left as stated earlier by a one-time contemporary of mine in this blog. That is quite true. In one instance, there was literally the face of one man fully fused into the back of the head of another, thus a two-faced head. It is that sort of thing I illustrate, that made this so incredibly difficult for the heroes and heroines who were first responders to this incident. They were extremely challenged and displayed incredible courage in at unspeakable atmosphere of unthinkable horrors. They have my full respect.
XP said on Wednesday, August 13, 2008, 11:50
yeah I figured the loss of hydraulics would make the plane uncontrollable, as well as structural damage to the wing.
Alex said on Thursday, August 14, 2008, 6:27
it’s expected the poor folks soiled their pants. can you imagine the horror of the passengers’ last moments? God bless their souls (if there is a God).
Mike said on Thursday, August 14, 2008, 13:05
Alex,
It is common for people to question God’s existence and/or goodness in times of tragedy. Still, how can you explain your own existence apart from a Creator? Just as your car has a designer and maker, you and all creation has a Designer and Maker, who is God.
Ron Query said on Thursday, August 14, 2008, 14:52
My best friend’s Dad was a firefighter at this crash when he was a rookie with SDFD. He said one time when this came up in conversation at a Padres game we were at was that what got him was the faces. He said they were all pretty jacked up but a lot of the more whole faces had a total look of fear in them, eyes and mouths wide open, like the dude who flew out alive screaming and pissing himself. He knew of that story too. Called it a dirty little secret of the crash. He said that really bothered the guys that worked that end of it. The whole thing is jacked man. I hate this crash. It comes up a lot in SD when you think about it. And now the 30th? Oh man, that is shrink. I hate it.
Dano said on Thursday, August 14, 2008, 15:26
I just found out that I will need to be in SD the week of 9/25/08. I now plan to go to the crash site and be there for any fellow Law Enforcement and Emergency Responders or volunteers who did their jobs that terrible day and weeks to follow. You came to help and and you did save lives, just not any of the planes occupants. If the crash was survivable you would have saved more lives and was I greatful you were there even though I knew it was in vain for my loved one. Like it has been disscussed in blog ..This was a horrendous and sad event for all involved and agonizing over what went on in the plane on the way down is what it is. I’m sure we all want to die during our sleep in the middle of the night..If so, then how do we always find the courage to turn the bedroom light out each night.. I’ll have hugs for anyone needing one ..Lord knows I’ll need one myself. God Bless ALL
Pages tagged "horrendous" said on Thursday, August 14, 2008, 21:01
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Joseph said on Friday, August 15, 2008, 2:53
Yeah, Kudos to the above comment. I didnt know anyone that died in that crash, but if I had a family member that did, I would certainly be indebted to someone that recovered all of the fragmented parts of people. I think it must be awful for all of those that had a family member of just a friend die on that crash, to know that there were only 4 whole bodies left. It would be awful for anyone to see that.
Sweet Lou said on Friday, August 15, 2008, 8:04
When I was at SDSU one of my professors told me and my buddy as he was helping us do a class project one afternoon, that he had worked the crash doing cleanup. Some girl in class had a vintage PSA t-shirt on and that is what started the whole conversation. This was in 1996.
My professor was interning with SDPD in t1978 and got pressed into service by some ranking officer who wanted him to experience “real world” as part if his internship and this crash presented the opportunity. Well, he got real world alright. They worked it from Tuesday afternoon through Friday afternoon. He was tasked with identifying and marking, then bagging, non-aircraft mechanical parts such as in-flight magazines, luggage, cups, strewn items sych as shoes, hats, this kind of thing.
He found several fragmented remains and his job then was to stop, place a small yellow flag there and wait until the proper guys showed up to do their thing with the body part. He hated it.
He said he found from feet with red-painted toenails to a man’s penis to a charred limbs with the tatoos still visible around the burned skin. It made him sick but he kept doing his job. He brought in a couple old pictures from one of those insta-camera things, Poloroid? or whatever, there he was standing with a coupel cops he worked with on the crash, and in the background you can see this white, wood-frame house with a giant, gaping hole in it. He said the hole was where a female passenger slammed through and literally exploded into pieces in the bedroom in there. One of the cops in the picture had been there the day of the crash and went in there to mark the remains and got sick and had to be taken of the line so to speak the rest of the day. But he was back the rest of the weeek doing his job. They were real heroes. The thing about that picture, the three look very tired and stressed, they are not smiling for sure. But they trudged on and did their jobs. Oh yeah, my professor was only 19 years old in Sept. 1978. Pretty tough kid to deal with that awful stuff at 19. He said he was ok with it, but will never forget the smell of the burned area and the flesh. Just awful.
Alex said on Friday, August 15, 2008, 11:58
Mike, sorry if I offended you but yeah everything has a creator so who created God? No way he could come from nothing. Neither science nor the Bible can prove that.
Anyways I didn’t mean to change the subject of the crash to a discussion on theology. I was just reacting to the horror of the crash.
Sorry.
Zack said on Friday, August 15, 2008, 15:11
Alex,
Not trying to enter a philosophical/theological discussion here. Not my intent. And I am not an overly religous person anyhow. I struggle with the concept of God myself.
However, I think the fact God could have sprung from nothing is the very fact he/she/it exists to begin with.
Mike said on Saturday, August 16, 2008, 20:50
Alex;
You didn’t offend me. I just wanted to encourage you to think things through concerning God. I encourage both you and Zack to “Seek” ….He’ll be found of you if you seek Him with your whole heart. In reality, it is we who are lost and need to be found…
TIKI said on Sunday, August 17, 2008, 17:08
I was working at a toilet BMW dealership in ElCajon at the time of the crash. I knew two of the flight attendants-one from when she worked for another carrier, and the other I had met the week before she died. She had come into the dealership to visit her friend, whom was the owners daughter. We were getting my buddy’s truck ready for a desert trip, and she saw me sitting on the tailgate and came over and introduced herself to me. Her photo on the PSA site doesn’t do her justice- she was very sweet and easy on the eyes. The day of the crash my friend told me that she had been on the flight. I felt numb. That would’ve been bad enough, but the picture of the plane going in I could have done without. I kept thinking where they were when that picture was taken. I will be at the site on 9-25.
TK Mulroy said on Monday, August 18, 2008, 9:29
I was friends with one of the PSA employees who was deadheading back to SD on that flight. We dated off and on in ‘76 into ‘77 then again in Summer ‘78. Our last date was about three weeks before she was killed, a day at Coronado and then dinner in MV. We planned to see each other again when she had free time, but alas, it never happend. She was a neat person with a real free-spirit, young and energetic, with a pleasant, friendly demeanor and a real good flight attendant. When the crash happened I was shocked and dismayed. Her family had to hold a basic memorial service in their backyard in Hemet, because she was one of the poor victims of which there was no more.
About five years or so after this crash I ran into her brother in Mira Mesa and he had me over to his place and gave me a picture of her in her PSA uniform. I still have it. Sad, real sad. She had years of fulfilling life ahead and it was gone in 20 seconds. Her brother had a strong anger toward the PSA flight crew and was upset many viewed them as heros in vain because he was a pilot himself (military) and said they were totally remiss in their actions and “badly screwed up for no good reason.”
Zorba said on Monday, August 18, 2008, 11:38
I survived an emergency landing of a Braniff flight one time in Florida. We all survived but it was for all intents and purposes a crash landing as we had an engine fire and the pilot, in his haste to get us on the ground I am sure, came in too fast and we went down teh entire runway and into the grass before we had to go down the chutes.
It was the most terrifying ten minutes or so I have ever experienced. You feel so utterly helpless. You feel so hopeless. And yes, you wet your pants. A bunch of wet our pants. And you cry and some throw up. It is the most unpleasant physical reaction imaginable, but in the end, you are so grateful to be alive you feel like it is Day One. I know I saw life differntly after that. PSA 182 happened just a year after my incident and only a mile or so from where I used to live. By then I was in Oceanside. It really hit me hard to think they didn’t experience the joy I did knowing we made it safely.
Cowboy Loy said on Tuesday, August 19, 2008, 8:42
I was at Lindbergh when this plane went down. I was waiting for a Western flight I believe it was to Vegas. Anyhow, I was walking past the PSA ticket booth and all of a sudden I heard this scream and “oh God no!” I looked over there and a female PSA employee put her hand to her mouth and was ghost white. There was a sudden commotion and I could see maybe four or five PSA employees scurrying about and in various stages of gasping and looking shocked. SO I must have walked past there right at the moment they got word. This would have been about 9:20 or so if I recall right. My plane left just before 10.
When I got on my flight nobody said anything but everybody knew and that particular crew looked chagrined, ashened faced I would describe it. Everyone was sort of apprehensive. It was a very uncomfortable moment when I got to my seat. When we taxied out and turned you could see the thick, black smoke billowing upward still and when we lifted off and turned south toward National City I could clearly see the where the smoke was coming from. It was a sick feeling. Nobody said a word. On the way to Vegas people started mumbling stuff and the man across from me said he heard the muffled cries of a PSA person when he walked past the booth too. And someone mentioned wetting in these posts. He said a PSA ticket agent was walking briskly toward the PSA offices crying and had visible wet streaks down her panty hose so even people not associated with the crash were getting sick and having accidents and just generally horrifed it would seem. One lady said she saw security staff escorting crying people to an office, most likley people who had been waiting to pick someone up is my guess.
Got to Vegas and turned on the Noon news and watched. It was surreal. I’ll never forget it.
In 1989 I think it was, maybe earlier than that, my buddy from my band playing days in Orange County saw an American Airlines jet crash in Dallas and actually saw a man in a car it hit get decapitated. Saw the man’s head literally fly into a grassy strip instantly. It made him so sick and scared he ended up seeing a counselor for several years and had constant nightmares. Plane crashses are just awful things and I am glad I didn’t see the PSA one. Just being at the airport that day was enough to make me disturbed.
My heart really goes out to all involved. Bless you.
Jeff said on Tuesday, August 19, 2008, 15:52
That Crash was the famous “Windshear” crash and it happended on Aug, 2nd 1985.
Cowboy Loy said on Tuesday, August 19, 2008, 16:11
That’s the one, Jeff. 1985, by God. That long ago. I knew it was around the mid to late ’80’s. Makes sense. My old buddy left our band in late ‘84 to take a job with 7-11 in their corporate out there in the Big D. He hadn’t been gone long when this happened. I think he said he was only out there that day to pick up a colleague coming in from L.A. and ended up seeing a plane diaster and then several years of couch time.
Herman Warstler said on Tuesday, August 19, 2008, 16:20
One of my treasured colleagues was killed in this sad incident. He was only going to San Diego for a four or five-hour meeting and some lunch downtown, then back home to Sacramento. He had been on that flight several times before.
I last saw him the Friday before the crash while at work. I never imagined it would be our last conversation.
I attended his memorial service on Sept. 30, 1978 in Elk Grove, California. There was a casket, empty I later was to learn. It was a ploy to prevent disturbing friends and loved ones. Eventually I learned the only identifiable remain was the sole of his left foot, used like finger prints. It was a devastating impact you see.
Ted Drake said on Wednesday, August 20, 2008, 9:16
I was surprised to read the descriptions from MCRD. I thought the planes were flying westbound, not eastbound. Is there a map of the flightpaths?
I always pictured the collision happening between North Park and SDSU, which would have made it difficult to see from MCRD.
Jeff said on Thursday, August 21, 2008, 15:00
The planes were flying eastbound. The PSA was going downwind (i guess they call it that, before turning on final approach to the airport) I am sure some of our pilots on this board can tell you better than I what exactly they were doing.
Here is a diagram of the accident:
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/98/235612842_25822f398d.jpg
Gregg said on Thursday, August 21, 2008, 22:08
I lived at Nile and Myrtle, a block south of the crash site. I was at work in Balboa Park. I saw the tower of smoke. The first news report gave the crash site at my corner. I left to see if my house was still there. It was but the front yard was full of sightseers and the back yard was full of black ashes. The police camped out for a week on my front porch, then private security patrolmen for another week during the cleanup. I did not go down to see any of the crash site. My new wife was a flight attendant with another airline. I did not want to have a bad memory associated with her job.
Louis said on Friday, August 22, 2008, 12:05
Theat whole scene was amazing. Debris and burned this and that and body parts everywhere around there. My cousin Charles was sick to his stomach because he was close to that crash, like two blocks, and he had him a half a head, no brain left in it, thrown into his hot tub. And he had him a bunch of guts like a person’s intestine’s or something that splattered against his side wall over by his garage. He took pictures and there is no doubt that is a person’s head, the back of it all nasty looking in his tub. The police took care of it for him but is was like a day or two he said. Them inner parts in one pic you can see brown stuff sort of leaking out and it’s chunky looking. I imagine that was poop. People they had to be dealing with that all day and all week. I would have not done it. I remember this mess. I was like 10, but I remember hearing about it.
Lou
Jeff said on Friday, August 22, 2008, 16:09
People why are we still talking about human excrement? And why are a few typing in what I can best describe as gangbanger slang?
Joey said on Friday, August 22, 2008, 19:17
Jeff, I just think a lot of people type they way they talk. I notice that in my Emails with folks I know. So be it. I believe that area has/had a number of gang types and so it is no surprise. But pure conjecture on my part.
As for the human excrement, I noticed that too. I guess we can chalk that up to human nature.
Sad incident down there in ‘78. That much I know.
Joey
Ex-Frontier Airlines Employee, currently employed with a cargo carrier.
Carrie said on Friday, August 22, 2008, 23:06
I also notice the same thing about victims being soiled.Not that I can’t handle this particular reality, but I wonder how much truth is in some of these accounts. I have been reading this blog for about 1 1/2 years and am amazed at how many people are still affected. I was looking on a site called wereyouthere.com and found the sweetest tribute about a man who lost his dear friend on 182. His entry was full of so much of how his friend lived the life he had been given and many of his accomplishments. I was so blessed to read it.There are some nice memories on this blog and I wish there were more who could write of the lives lost, but lay aside the gore for the time being and allow them to be remembered for the lives they lived. I know if I died I would hope those who knew me would tell the world how I lived and not where my torso landed for goodness sake. I know there are so many who grieve so deeply still to this day about who they lost in this tragic event. Maybe you read this blog and it hurts and angers you. Maybe it is time to let us know what made them laugh, what they liked to do when in San Diego or whatever will help put a positive picture in our minds of their lives. The PSA memorial page has nice pictures of the crew that passed, but there were others as well. Not that this matters to anyone else, but I just thought maybe others might agree.
D.Allison said on Saturday, August 23, 2008, 4:20
I agree with you Carrie. I know talking about the gore and excrement and mutilation is cathartic for some who witnessed it, but it is sad that we dont hear much from family members here. As far as the PSA employee memorial site, that was arrogant to not put the pics of the others killed on that plane. There were 30 PSA employees and some crew, but the others were just average Joes. I am particularly sad they have been largely igonored and wish there was a memorial for ALL victims lost on the internet. Even more bothersome to know that many of the PSA crew were partying all night and may have contribluted to this tragedy (though nobody deserved this type of brutal death).
Robert Campbell said on Saturday, August 23, 2008, 17:18
I was a former airline pilot training to be a paramedic for Medevac in San Diego when 182 went in. I remember it just like it was yesterday even though it’s been 30 years.
Looking at many of the other comments certainly refreshes my memories, and I am reminded of many things I’d long since forgotten. I found the comments to be accurate and they certainly captured just what occurred in North Park on that beautiful September day.
I was on scene about 10 minutes after the event, and remained there until the late afternoon. I marked body parts for the NTSB and coroner, after initially running in and out of the burning homes looking for survivors. It was a very surrealistic scene, and the contrasts and incongruencies of it were truly remarkable for me. This may be due to the fact that I had flown into Lindberg several hundred times, shot the same ILS practice approach dozens of times, also as a CFIIA, from MYF, and having been a paramedic, I related to incident from that vantage also.
Over the years I flew for the airlines again, with time in the DC9, and I often felt like I had experienced that horrible accident from the cockpit, while reliving it from the ground. It was truly a remarkable and memorable day for me, which doubtless changed my life in many ways, only some of which I probably appreciate.
Steve Curry said on Saturday, August 23, 2008, 18:49
I moved to North Park about two years before this happened. Previously I lived in Encinitas and grew up in Oceanside. But I wanted to be closer in to work (National City of off 805). I used to enjoy sitting in my pool and watching the aircraft go downwind and just spot whichever airline it was. Probably never saw 182 in the mornings but sure saw a bunch of PSA. Also, Hughes, Western, National, you name it. Fun.
Thing I remember about that day…I was at work, had just finished up our morning briefing when our secretary came in and said she’d just seen a plane go down. She was pretty shaken up, sort of in a daze. She had made a donut run as a surprise treat for us, poor thing, and just happened to see it go in. We comforted her as she had just broken down at her desk iinto deep sobs, she muttered it was a “big plane” a passenger jet and “huge explosion.” We were shocked. Someone put on their radio (no TV in our office in these days) and I believe it was KFMB breaking in with the news that a PSA plane had gone down near 805 and it was massive.
We just sat glued to the radio as the reports came in and couldn’t believe what we were hearing. We couldn’t see the smoke from where our building was but we could hear sirens and did see a couple fire engines speeding north.
At Noon we decided to call it a day as the whole thing was just too distracting. All eleven of us went home and our Senior Account Manager, a lovely woman named Judith who was in her early 60s, went home with our secretary (in her mid-20s) to keep her company until her mother could come over from Riverside. The poor girl was disturbed. We gave her the rest of the week off but she came in on Wednesday anyhow.
When I got home that evening, I lived on Texas, I found some scattered papers and a small layer of ash on the pool. It was left over from PSA. Amazing.
A few years later I moved to Houston but every year or so I am in S.D. for work, usually a week or two, and always reflect on this epic and sad day.
Barry Vernon said on Saturday, August 23, 2008, 19:00
D. Allison mentions PSA partying. It was epic back then. I was with Western and later Air California when I moved up to the OC. But back in the 70’s if you wanted to get your party fix you went to anything PSA. There liquor was extraordinary, to this day I don’t know where they got it all, and many of their flight attendants were easy scores. It was widely known if you wanted to bed a dolly at any PSA party you pretty much just had to have a pulse and clean pits, maybe good breath, and half a shave. This was the 70’s folks! PSA flight attendants were real hose monsters.
The PSA flight crews were party animals too. Most I think. I know for a fact that SD crew had been up late Sunday working the bottles and chasing tail in Sacramento I think it was. We heard from our collegues up there who had partied with that bunch before.
What is really sad about this whole incident…it never should’ve happened, but these boys in the cockpit had been going great gods with Uncle Jim and Cousin Jack the night before and were overtired, were lacking in judgement, and had been goofing in the cockpit the whole flight. Had they been more alert, no crash. Simple as that. We all knew it at the time.
I agree about PSA arrogance. They were nice people, mostly. But cocky, hard partying, and sometimes aloof.
The airline in California that was most down-to-earth ( no pun intended) at the time was Air California. Very nice bunch. At PSA, they sort of thought their exhaust didn’t stench.
Oh well, tragic in every way and we all wish it never happened.
Jay Leary said on Sunday, August 24, 2008, 14:36
I noticed the gangsta talk-style of writing too, but there were a lot of those types down there in that area at the time, wannabe thugs I would call them. They came from east of I-805 (some were known El Cajon Blvd area Crips) by 10 AM and gaves us fits in trying to keep them OUT and AWAY from tagged remains and personal bags and so on. My partner arrested two of them he caught trying to lift rings off a hand and I myself chased a young man away from some bags strewn onto a yard along Nile.
I was disgusted with that bunch, but not at all surprised. I was only in my third year at PD back then, but in subsequent years I was on gang detail and some of the same thugs arrested that day were still at it as late as 1992 when I left for homocide. It gets better. When I left at the end of 2006 to work as a consultant for the New Mexico State Police, my last homocide investigation involved a conspirator who what? Was arrested for theft at PSA nearly 30 years before.
If some of those clowns are blogging here, they have no shame and from me, no respect.
Giles said on Monday, August 25, 2008, 6:51
Here’s the photo of the flying superman
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/213/450847613_8eda703038.jpg?v=0
Greg said on Monday, August 25, 2008, 8:32
Hi – Has anyone heard anything updated about any possible memorial observance or gathering next month on the 25th, and if so where/when? I had a dear friend on the plane and would like to do something on that anniversary. Thanks.
Steven Dietz said on Monday, August 25, 2008, 8:37
As for memeorial service, on the 20th anniversary there was the dedication of the memorial marker at the North Park Public Library. There will most likely be something there. I and several others will be at the crash site starting at around 8:30 and going until it breaks up. This is totally unofficial. I am bringing flowers.
Phyllis said on Monday, August 25, 2008, 11:59
I am planning on being at the crash site with flowers also. I hope others will be there as well.
Jeff said on Monday, August 25, 2008, 19:26
Where did the nose of the place actually hit? Was it a house on the corner of Dwight and Nile? Or was it Boundry and Nile? I have heard different stories. Which house on what corner, NE, NW, SE, SW?
Steven Dietz said on Tuesday, August 26, 2008, 8:58
Hello all,
As far as the actual impact goes I believe if it did hit a house it had to have been the one at the Northwest corner of Dwight and Nile. If you look at the aerial photos just after the accident it loooks as if impact may have actually been just to the North of the center divide line of Nile street. Probably pretty hard to get an accurate answer.
The new house on this corner has a black iron fence. I think this will be a nice place to put flowers, mementos, etc. at the 30th anniversary.
If you do a google earth search of the site and compare it to the aerial pictures after the accident you will see that the only house on that block that is still standing is the house on the Southwest corner and its small garage in the backyard.
If you want to see actual footage taken on the ground about an hour after impact the movie “faces of death” made in 1978 has about 3 minutes. You can see this footage on http://www.moviesfoundonline.com The 182 footage starts about 1 hour and 33 minutes into the film. Be advised it is pretty graphic and depressing. I have been able to locate only one of the scene locations, on Boundary.
I have always had a fear of flying that stems from this crash. Crazy enough later in the day of the 30th anniversary I am flying with my son to Chicago. Thanks everyone.
D.Allison said on Tuesday, August 26, 2008, 9:27
Be advised of Mr. Dietz’ above post-this footage from the FOD link he provided is VERY gruesome. If you knew someone on that flight, please avoid this link. Having this sick images seared into your mind will do nothing to help you. For others, it is a full shot of the area of impact, but I hope and pray friends and relatives avoid this link. God be with these poor folks who perished and these scenes are truly heartbreaking. Please remember the victims’ lives, not their deaths.
Gregg said on Tuesday, August 26, 2008, 10:22
The impact point is hard to pin down since it was a large airplane. There was a house on the east side of Nile St. that had damage to an edge of its roof from a wing. There were marks on Nile St. Someone said that a car traveling on the street was hit. Houses on the west side of Nile St., and along Dwight St. were demolished or damaged. One house had been used for day care but I think there were no children in it at that moment.
I lived for a few years at the corner of Nile and Myrtle, a block away.
Steven Dietz said on Tuesday, August 26, 2008, 12:47
In regards to D.Allisons comments on my posting. She/He is indeed right. It was not my intention to cause anyone pain. That was why I warned of the graphic nature of the footage. I do consider the aerial footage to be the best archival footage of the impact area. If I have offended I am sorry.
I did know Flight Attendent Karen Lee Borzewski.
D. Allison said on Tuesday, August 26, 2008, 15:20
Steve-Thank you for noticing my post. I was not intending on chastizing you. In fact, the link is useful and contains several minutes of footage of the horrific aftermath. I just wanted to give relatives/friends a fair warning, ‘cuz it seems there are many who visit this blog. The thought of them having these images seared in their minds causes me pain. Thanks for understanding!
Jeff said on Tuesday, August 26, 2008, 15:33
Thanks for that link Steven, It was not my intention to see any graphic scenes. I was just trying to pinpoint where the crash hit and which direction was the most impacted.
What was the neighborhood like then 1978 and what is it like today. Is it a high crime area today or was it back then?
Steven Dietz said on Tuesday, August 26, 2008, 16:03
To D.Allison: Thank you. I totally understand your concerns and took no offense from you.
Jeff,
I am glad you were able to use the footage to find out more about the site. The neighborhood now is not bad. I would say lower middle class perhaps? From what I have been told during the late 70’s it was worse.
My work takes me near the site almost weekly. I always take the time to visit if I am near. I was actually there just this morning.
I was only 11 when the accident happened. Our next door neighbor was a trainer of Flight Attendents for PSA.
Jeff said on Tuesday, August 26, 2008, 17:19
Thanks Steven,
I was 12 at the time, living in the Bay Area and that picture on the front of the newspaper has forever haunted me. I did not mean to offend anyone I was just trying to get a feel for the crash, neighborhood etc..after hearing stories of looting at the accident scene (still hard to imagine)
Again my apoloogies if my questions offended anyone. I wish I could be there at the Anniversary to pay my respects but I do hope that Dave makes a wonderul documentary for all to share.
Carrie said on Wednesday, August 27, 2008, 8:34
From what I have learned of the area is that it is much, much better than in the late 70’s – 80’s. The crime statistics increased in the early 90’s and dropped significantly in the early 2000’s.
It is sad when you go to this neighborhood because pretty much all of the residents during the time of the crash have either moved or passed away. What used to be considered a lower middle class family home in the mid 70’s are today being renovated and sold for between 400-600 thousand in this neighborhood. They are beautiful homes now excluding the few that still await their makeover.
When I visit the neighborhood these day’s especially on clear sky days(mostly always in San Diego) it feels very safe, However, some of the surrounding areas are still very “ghetto” if you will.
I have seen the photos from the air and the ground of the crash site and the area today is hardly recognizable. Maybe that’s best.
Ike Mazzeroski said on Wednesday, August 27, 2008, 9:34
My family goes back to 1939 in that general neighborhood. My grandfather bought his first home on Upas and 32nd that year after moving from Riverside to work in the aircraft manufacturing industry.
They lived there for many years and I grew up both at that home and my own parents home on Vancouver Avenuem which is just down the street a few blocks from the crash site. My sister still owns her home on 29th Street, near Dwight, although at the moment she has it rented out. That home was renovated and recenty appraised at $475,000.
I lived on Vancouver at the time of the crash, however I was on a school field trip that morning to some farm in North County. We did not even hear about the crash until we got back to class that afternoon about 3 PM.
I recall it being a really hot day. I was told by my mother when she came to pick me up that we would be going to my other grandparents (her mom and dad) house in Allied Gardens for the day and evening because “a big plane crashed” on Nile Street. I was sure surprised to hear that!
When we got to my grandparents we watched the TV news coverage all evening. I was forced to skip school the next day, but was back at the house on Wednesday and back in school that afternoon.
There was no damage to our home or any debris of any sort. My grandparents home on Upas had some papers fly into their backyard, including pages from an in-flight PSA magazine. We still have those pages in plastic.
Back then the neighborhood was solidly middle-class, blue-collar, retired Navy, working-class etcetera…it was an ok area. The problem was not the actual residents in and around the neighborhood. It was the thugs and low-lifers from gangs that came across the freeway and into the area to pillage like pirates. I recall back then that SDPD was heavily criticized by my parents and others in the area for not taking a harder stance on local crime. But I repeat, the good folks who lived in these houses in and around the crash site, were normal, hard-working, or retired elderly middle-class people. We were vicitmized by east side scum as we called them.
It seems a couple have posted in this blog and shame on you. You reap what you sow. You stole cars, made graffitti, burglarized, vandalized, and mugged in an area you were too low-life to live. And then you went so far as to take items from the dead in a plane crash. You have no respect from me.
As for the area today, it is quite nice and a good investment. Safe, clean, and charming.
It does bear some resemblance, however, to the way it did back then. Houses have been redone, trees have grown up tall, or been cut down, and yards have been altered, but overall it feels and looks about the same, generally, as it did in 1978, just 30 years of cosmetic change in play, which isn’t all that much in reality.
When you are all there on Sept. 25, you will be in an area that,for the most part, is about the same as it was 30 years ago, give or take some remodels, plants and trees, and 30 years of minimal aging.
Earl of Sturgis said on Wednesday, August 27, 2008, 13:51
Someone asked where it hit. The leading edge of the right wing clipped off a small section of my neighbor’s roof. He lived next door on Nile, eastside.
In the aerial photos you’ll notice a line running diagonally across Dwight. That is the same wing edge.
The nose of the aircraft then struck the front (we are guessing this but close) of the third house up from the corner of Dwight and Nile on the south side of Dwight.
The plane was still turning at an angle when it hit. We know this because my neighbor on the other side was in the backyard hanging her wash on the clothes lines and saw the plane and she is the one widely reported that could see INTO the cockpit window and could see the frantic movements inside….she ws interviewed right in front of me by seveal media, so thisis hard, cold fact.
She said the place was still rotating toward the right and she knew it would go past her but figured it would hit the houses on the North side of Dwight. She said the sound just before impact was fierce! She was uninjured but terribly shaken.
At any rate, the nose struck that house and she recalls little else as she hit the grass and went into a fetal position and did not emerge from that position until our neighbor two houses down from her helped her to her feet and we think this may have been as long as twenty minutes!
I was not there. I was at our shop on El Cajon and drove as far as University, parked, got out, and walk-ran my way down Boundary and eventually to our house on Nile. It was sheer devastation and made me physically ill to my stomach in my own yard.
My home was not damaged. You can see it in some newspaper clippings I have, aerial shots. Literally, no damage, no debris, nothing in my yard or home.
I know for sure the angle and place of impact because we saw it clearly. It was unmistakable. I did see many human remains and torn wreckage and debris of all manner.It was grotes
Mike said on Wednesday, August 27, 2008, 16:41
Ike,
Thank you for your informative post. I was 13 at the time. I remember hearing about the crash while in school (Mt. Carmel). It was surreal and apparently the it has affected me since I regularly check this site. I live in Idaho now…Ike, I was wondering if you could email me concerning some questions I had.
Ike Mazzeroski said on Wednesday, August 27, 2008, 20:55
Sure, anyone who wishes to Email regarding this crash may do so at TRYXVR@msn.com. It is a sort of generic Email address or alt address that will not interfere with my wife’s emails.
I will answer any questions, time permitting.
Trey153 said on Wednesday, August 27, 2008, 23:01
I would like to see the aerial photographs that Earl speaks of. And Earl if you have some sort of transcript of that interview given by your neighbor I’d like to read it.
Earl of Sturgis said on Thursday, August 28, 2008, 8:06
Trey153,
Transcript? What do you think? I am freaking Wolf Blitzer?
She was interviewed by a gaggle of tv reporters the likes of Channel 8, 39, Channel 4 in L.A. and so on.
You wanna transcript, go bother them for one. And good luck.
Maddy Washington said on Thursday, August 28, 2008, 12:41
That whole incident cost me my job. I had to quit. I was a flight attendant at Western at the time, lots of runs on a Boeing 707 to Hawaii. But when that crash took place I was really shaken up. I was only 22 at the time and impressionable and the sudden death and destruction left a lasting impression on me. I resigned October 31, 1978. I hit a rough spot for a few years after that, going from low paying odd job to odd job, moved back in with my parents awhile, I even ended up doing call girl stuff in L.A. a few months, then when I turned 26 I joined the Air Force….of all things. I retired from the Air Force in 2003 and now what do I do? Work for Southwest Airlines as a ticket agent in Las Vegas. But the crash was suffciently bad enough to make me leave the airlines for a long, long time.
Trey153 said on Thursday, August 28, 2008, 15:03
Geeze…don’t have to be a wise ass about it I was asking you nicely.
D. Allison said on Thursday, August 28, 2008, 15:30
Agreed, Trey. This sight is supposed to be positive. Not sure why Earl got so touchy, ‘cuz he is usually very nice. I was a bit taken aback by his comment as well. We should focus on the victims, not petty stuff.
Terry Wangler said on Thursday, August 28, 2008, 19:20
I have been reading all the different stories and find it very interesting that I was one of the first 6 people to comment way back in October of 2004. It seems alot of people have connections with this horrible accident. I was an 18 year old Marine Recruit at M.C.R.D right next to the airport in SanDiego. I witness the whole accident and have always wondered if any other Marines that were stationed there remember it happening.I can not afford to fly out there from Illinois for the 30 year anniversary,but hope everyone that does make it can give a moment of silence for me to remember all those involved. Thanks,Terry
Earl of Sturgis said on Thursday, August 28, 2008, 19:58
I was trying to be funny and it was misinterpreted. My apologies if anyone was offended. Sometimes a little levity helps in situations like this. It came off wrong. Sorry. But still, I have no transcript. That was TV news.
Dano said on Friday, August 29, 2008, 15:15
To Terry Wangler. From one vet to another consider it done Brother !! I will honor your request. Since having made the decision to be in SD that week I have experienced an amazing spritual journey of continunal connections to San Diego with regards to who I meet or interact with that all have connections to PSA 182. To mention just a few..One of my coworkers at Caltrans HQ where I now work was scheduled to take that flight but did not make it. I walk past our fallen workers memorial each day and see the names Pauline Colarich and Leonard Barr who did make that fateful flight.. The list goes on and on and so I know in my heart that being there the morning of 9/25 is exactly where I’m suppossed to be. I know I will not be alone. God Bless All
Greg said on Friday, August 29, 2008, 19:19
I am planning to be there on the 25th, before 9am, I guess at Dwight & Nile. I am not sure if there will be more of an observance at the site of the memorial, or whether to go to Dwight & Nile. I want to do something, though. Anyone else?
Carrie said on Friday, August 29, 2008, 21:35
I will be at the crash site again this 9/25 in the morning. I mentioned in an earlier message that I went last year and saw no one. I was bummed about this but I understand that 29 years gets over looked and 30 attracts so many. Again, I am still wondering why I can’t seem to get my mind off of this event. I check this blog daily and am some how comforted that I am not the only one who thinks this way.
I think it is of the utmost importance that any who gather on this day be aware that this neighborhood has for the most part moved on and that we need to be respectful of the occupants who live in the area today. Maybe they don’t really want a bunch of flowers or candles or signs hanging around their front yards for them to have to clean up long after we have gone. Does that seem insensitive? I just don’t want to offend anybody. I wonder if this is why there is an official memorial at the local library and not the actual crash site to prevent this from happening. Anyways, I will be there and hope to meet some of you and offer prayer and care for anyone who may need it.
Dano said on Saturday, August 30, 2008, 7:47
I totally agree with Carrie. This is all about respect. I have never visited the crash site although I have seen it from the air many times. I have always wanted North Park and San Diego to heal from this terrible event. It really did take a certain innocence away from the town. I plan to bring only my memories and no doubt leave with a few more. I feel it is appropriate to be there to support those who had their hearts broken 30 years ago like I did and offer my heartfelt thanks to those who did their best to help and suffered the mental scars that affected so many people that aweful day and still does. I plan to include a stop at each of the memorial plaques as well. To those who live in North Park now and back then, Please bear with us while we pay our respects and honor those who can’t forget a tragic event in all our lives that seems so long ago but also seems like yesterday. God Bless All
TIKI said on Saturday, August 30, 2008, 12:17
I will be looking forward to meeting those of you who plan on visiting the site next month. Like Carrie, I only plan on bringing myself so as not to disturb the current residents with a lot of things to clean up. Hopefully, it won’t be a traffic issue since we don’y know how many of us will attend.
G. said on Saturday, August 30, 2008, 12:32
Like Tiki, Dano and Carrie, I plan to be at the crash site on the 25th (I guess just before 9am). I am scheduling a trip from out of town around being able to be there on the 25th, because it is important to me to be there this time. I have never visited the crash site, and don’t live in CA, but had a very dear special friend from my teenage years who was on the flight, and I want to honor her and take note of this now. I don’t know, it’s something about the round number character of it.
Anyway, I don’t plan to leave or bring flowers or anything like that either, just my memories and somehow I think carrying a picture of her with me will be good. It would be good to see others there; strength in even small numbers.
Smoke said on Saturday, August 30, 2008, 16:22
I would highly suggest you all think seriously about clogging that poor street up with flowers, baloons, teddy bears, and each other because it is the 30th year since this incident. The neighbors deserve better than that. How would you feel if a bunch of stangers showed up in front of your house at 9 in the morning trying to get over something that happened three decades ago? I mean, I sympathize and feel for all of you. And you have my respect. But Captain Christ, think about the poor folks who live there and had nothing to do with this incident. I mean, really…
TIKI said on Saturday, August 30, 2008, 16:58
Sooooooooo…….. I guess we won’t be seeing Smoke on Sept.25th. I think if we all act with respect on the solemness of the occasion, no one will mind. No drag racing, burnouts, or donuts in the intersections ok?
Carrie said on Sunday, August 31, 2008, 7:33
I think I said the same thing Smoke a couple of entries ago and there seems to be a general consensus on the matter so your reminder is not necessary. And one more thought, If you live in that neighborhood, you obviously knew when you bought your home that there was a possibility that memorials would probably take place, and people would visit the area year round if they felt they needed to. I believe the fact that so many still blog here and so much recently, that it is necessary for some to gather. I think the residents will tolerate a crowd for the a.m. hours and have probably expected it for some time.I think after 30 years it shows a lot of hearts that still beat for those lost and to put up a fuss about a memorial is wrong.
G. said on Sunday, August 31, 2008, 12:29
Regarding visiting the site: I just really feel like this will be a way to let the spirit of the one I knew on the flight know that I am there for her, thinking of her, still missing her after all these years. It doesn’t sound like (at least from the postings here) there will be all that many people there anywhere, and of course it will be less for the 40th, and less for the 50th, until eventually those of us who had some personal connection to those on the flight are no longer around either, and what happened at that spot is more or less forgotten to history. I am not ready to forget yet though; I guess I never will be….
And, as I mentioned also, I won’t be leaving anything at the site either.
Dano said on Monday, September 1, 2008, 21:51
Hi Folks.. Glad to see that smoke has not derailed anyones plans. I’m sure North Park will understand. I do hope to meet some of you there and share our some of our memories. And even if I will be driving a rental car.. I will have to agree with Tiki and say no to a sideshow. LOL…It’s about the reverence and respect!! I’ll check back. Take care and God Bless All
Steven Dietz said on Tuesday, September 2, 2008, 9:14
Hello all,
Those are some good thoughts on NOT leaving flowers, etc. at the site. When my wife and I were first married we rented a house at the corner of Vermont and Robinson in the San Diego suburb of Hillcrest. We did not know that there had been a brutal anti-gay hate murder at that corner a few years previous. On the anniversary at about 10:00 at night there would literally be a couple hundred people there. That of course did not bother me as I could appreciate their feelings on the subject but the pile of flowers and the melted candles were a pain to clean up in the days that followed.So I guess what I am saying is I will see you there but I will leave the flowers at the memorial at the North Park Library. (So a city worker can clean them up I guess)
TIKI said on Tuesday, September 2, 2008, 18:03
Hey Dano, you seem like a pretty cool dude to have picked up on my humor on no displays of speed at the memorial. I look forward to meeting you and the others. I’m with Porsche-Audi now so I’ll be in a A4, Peace, TIKI aka David
Dano said on Tuesday, September 2, 2008, 22:18
Just could’nt let that one pass Tiki !! I just hope Smoke doesn’t lay that BS on the families and friends of loved ones lost at the WTC 23 years from now !! I’ll be looking for ya for sure David.. I’ll be driving a whatever color econobox!! Chat soon I’m sure ..Hasta and God Bless All
Carol said on Thursday, September 4, 2008, 14:32
I was living on Boundry Street 30 years ago when the plane crash happenend. The major impact of the plane landed on the house across the street and killed everyone inside. The nose of the plane was aimed at my front door, according to pictures I was able to look at later on. I was home at the time, it was a very traumatic event in my life, one that is never forgotten.
Jim said on Thursday, September 4, 2008, 18:18
Carol,
How many people lived at the home where the plane crashed, and did they all die?
G. said on Thursday, September 4, 2008, 18:59
Hi Steven, Tiki, Dano and Carrie – My earlier messages from 8/30 and 8/31 are above. I will be at the site on the 25th and will look forward to meeting you and others there; it will be helpful to me to have others there when I go. Of course we’ll be respectful of the neighborhood, and we know why we are there. I think it’s going to be quite an emotional day.
Mike said on Thursday, September 4, 2008, 20:56
To Carol and everyone who has been affected by this traumatic event 30 years ago. Thank you for your transparency and honesty. That’s part of the healing and grieving process. I recommend you to check out a very compassionate and helpful website to continue your journey through dealing with grief/loss:
http://www.griefshare.org/
Dano said on Thursday, September 4, 2008, 22:07
Thanks for sharing that info Mike.. I know of that site and I’ve heard it has made a positive difference in many peoples lives. From so many of you out there, I can already feel how special and heartfelt it will be to not only celibrate the lives of family,friends and loved ones taken from us. But to also honor, respect and comfort those who bear the mental scars of being there 30 years ago. It will truly be a tribute to those we loved and lost if we always keep trying to help heal each other no matter how many years pass!! Perhaps that is where we will really find our peace, solace and closure. Just my thoughts tonight.. God Bless All
Carrie said on Thursday, September 4, 2008, 23:01
I couldn’t agree more. I haven’t mentioned this yet, but I lost a family member on TWA flt. 800. It was headed for Paris in 96′. Although living in the west I have not been able to visit any memorials for this tragedy, I always feel really good knowing total strangers still show up every July 17th to honor those lost. Sort of in my place. They don’t even have an exact place to mourn or rejoice. Just the oceans edge. But they still do it. This 9/25 is my way of doing what I can to stand in the gap for someone who may want to be there but can’t. It is very healing.
TIKI said on Friday, September 5, 2008, 14:12
My God Carol, How difficult it must be to have been so close to the actual impact. Will you be attending the area on the 25th? It would be great to talk with you and our other new friends. The flight attendant that I knew from a previous carrier I mentioned in my initial post was my ex-wife. I too need and want to be there. Later, TIKI
Carol said on Friday, September 5, 2008, 14:49
Thanks for comments and questions. I really have some more thoughts and want to share more about that day. I remember it being so hot, and sleeping on the sofa out in the living room trying to get some air from the open windows. At around 8am my 1 1/2 old daughter woke up and we went in the back bedroom. At 9:05am I had my eyes closed and saw an orange burst of light before hearing the boom. It was like some have shared, sounding like a sonic boom. I ran out into the living room and saw the front of the house on fire, then ran back and grabbed my daughter and put her out on the back porch and ran back in to get some money out of my dresser and we got in my car and navigated our way out. I knew something horrible had happend, but didnt know what. My twin sister lived 6 blocks away, and when she heard the boom she tried to call me. She was getting in her car as I was driving up, and we cried in each others arms. The strange thing is that I had premonitions for a week that the front of the house was on fire, and came up with an escape plan, knowing what I would take and what to do.
My daughter and I both suffered sleepless nghts, the washing machine would wake her up and she would cry, I know if affected her at that young age.
We moved to Kansas City a year later, and I have been back once to the sight. I would really like to be there this year, but cannot. I will be there in thought, thankful to be alive, and sad for those who lost their lives.
I had a friend who was a stewardess on PSA, she had just had a baby, and knew everyone that died. I had a fireman friend who was driving in the area and came to help. My younger sister dated a guy named Eric who was new on the police force. They apparently used my house as a training video, knocking down the front door and filming the entrance and search.
I do remember going back to the house several days later to move my things out and finding out that 3 bodies were in the house. I didnt see them when I ran out in the living room and a reporter at the scene told me it was called “Gods Eyes”, where you dont sometimes see those horrible things. I heard about the looting, and think that is a very low thing for anyone to do. And that was 30 years ago.
I wish at that time they had couseling offered, it was a different time. I am doing great, only think about it once in awhile, and started flying agan the next year. I held on to the arms of the seats so hard though, and for about 6 years was very stressed about flying.
4 years ago, I went up in a 4 seater cessena, knowing it was something I needed to do, never thinking I would in a hundred years.
Dano said on Saturday, September 6, 2008, 8:32
Hi Carol ..Your story left me in tears. You and so many other is why I will be there this year. Your lives were so affected by this terrible accident. The death of a lady I knew and dated just a few months but cared very deeply for pales in comparison to what others have been through. Rest assured that I will carry your feelings in my heart on the 25th. >> To Carrie ..This you need to know. My family is originally from Long Island NY and 2 of my cousins were first responders to Flight 800’s tragic end. They go every year and pay their respects so there is our connection. We are all connected one way or another and so we will help each other heal. GOD Bless ALL
K.J. said on Saturday, September 6, 2008, 20:55
Yesterday I went to Dwight and Nile.
I live only minutes away, but this was the first time it felt right to go.
It was a lovely sunny day. A happy little neighborhood.
I expected to feel grief, but felt only peace. The ground is peaceful there now.
The words that came to my mind…
“it’s fine, it’s fine.”
I wish you all peace and healing.
Dano said on Sunday, September 7, 2008, 7:53
Hey KJ.. Thanks for sharing that with us. I’m not surprised that you got those feelings being there. In reading my last post I’m concerned that I might have left an impression that the tragic death of this special lady was not a profound loss for me.. Far be that the truth.. I felt terrible about it and cheated out of at the very least a wonderful friendship and perhaps so much more. It’s just that I did not loose my home, family member or entire family in the ensuing devastation that day..I have experianced heartwrenching human loss before and after flight 182 but those came with the territory when the bulk of my work life was the USAF and many years in law enforcement. All of this has blessed me with a compassion that knows no boundries and is truly a gift from God. Prayers to all today and always.. God Bless All
TIKI said on Monday, September 8, 2008, 13:06
Dano, Don’t feel bad, I know how you feel. The loss of my exwife on the flight was very tragic also, but nothing like the innocent families on the ground. This just points to how important it is that we all meet next week for healing purposes, Later, TIKI
Dano said on Monday, September 8, 2008, 23:37
Thanks for that Tiki. And for sharing a little more with us. Ex or not it had to be hard. I can only hope that you did not have any children who lost thier mom too. Clearly, a lot of us agree that it is one thing to lose your life taking any form transportation or performing high risk occupations. But to be killed just sitting in your home or walking with your baby down the street is pretty hard to fathom at times and a earlier post is right ..they do seem to be forgotten.. But in a little more than 2 weeks from now we will make sure that they are not forgotten and none of the people who came to help or lived through it will be either !! Hasta and God Bless All
Carrie said on Tuesday, September 9, 2008, 15:25
They changed the lay out of this site. It looks great and I’m glad they are keeping this story going.
Carol, what a testimony of courage and smart thinking. I believe God does keep us from seeing what He knows we can’t handle. I have small children myself and wonder what I would do if an emergency required me to think fast, and reading your account made my heart beat a little faster. Before my kids started school, I used to be home with them every day and I can’t get over the fact that a family just like mine was taken so unjustly. I just hope there was no suffering on their part. I still think of their families and hope they are as good as they can be considering.
It is so good to hear how you have overcome many fears from that day. Good for you! I’m glad you shared it with us.
Dano, It is amazing all the connections happening for many of us.My husband is from N.Y. and all his family still lives there. We probably all know someone lost on 9/11 or someone who served in some capacity at yet another tragic day.
Looking forward to meeting you all, until next time…
Smoke said on Tuesday, September 9, 2008, 21:18
Man, you people who are coming to the neighborhood really need to pool your cash, rent a hall, hire some grief counselors, maybe a caterer, and do this OUTSIDE the nieghborhood. Those folks deserve better than to have a bunch of people standing around trying to get over their grief 30 YEARS after the accident. Captain Christ people, show some respect! And who’s the cat who said people who bought homes in that area should understand and expect this sort of thing? Not one of you cats has offered up their home for a grief get together so why do you think it is cool as custard to stand around in front of a strangers house and cry your crocodiles?
182 was a tragedy, but look , hanging out in the hood is not only warped, it is creep show creepy.
Trey153 said on Wednesday, September 10, 2008, 0:31
Smoke….if you lost a friend/relative in this crash…then you’d be able to speak to their grief until then let them grieve the way they need to.
Dano said on Wednesday, September 10, 2008, 7:57
Well Smoke.. I know this can’t be Tony Stewart posting that garbage so I’ll go out on a limb and call it.. You call yourself Smoke because you are on the pipe!! You have to be high coming up with the comments you have ..So why don’t you get some help like Nar-Non or AA and then consider joining us on the 25th and experience some real heartfelt human compassion and love. Perhaps that is just what you need. Seriously !! Oh one other thing ..Give it up on the captain christ thing.. Anyone who is christian or served his or her country knows that GOD has no rank and with that being said >>GOD BLESS ALL
Dano said on Wednesday, September 10, 2008, 8:10
Good morning Carrie. I hope to meet you and your husband. I’m sure we will have much to talk about and share..My immediate family was spared any losses from 9/11 by the grace of God and a doctor appointment that morning for my oldest cousin’s husband who left WTC 20 minutes before the 1st plane hit. He is now retired from NYPD and of course lost many friends that day. Lot’s prayers for all tommorow.. Never Forget !! God Bless ALL
Carrie said on Wednesday, September 10, 2008, 8:50
Do you call yourself Smoke because you are full of hot air?
The FEW people who have made connections on this small blog are just a tiny percentage of others who will be there on 9/25. I have never heard of anyone so insensitive to peoples way of memorializing lost souls.One day out of how many years? I have a feeling that you deal with your own grief in this negative way and because I am sensitive to that I will stop responding to any more of your comments and I suggest others do the same. Two last thoughts, I am not a “cat” I am a human, and It is Captain Crunch for the record : )
Manitowoc Mike said on Wednesday, September 10, 2008, 11:35
I was a young kid when this happend. 18. I was fresh out of high school and going to San Diego City College at night, working at Sea World during the day. I always had Monday off and no class so I was goofing around North Park that day. My parents lived up there and I kept my room in the back of the house even though my three buddies and I had a big apartment in OB. I was walking down University when these two hit. It looked like the PSA plane just overran the little private plane. It sort of flipped the private plane upside down and it slammed into the wing of the PSA jet. A man sort of half fell out as the little plane went up and over the wing and then just dropped straight down. The PSA jet went on a bit and then turned like it was going to try and land on I-805, but it pitched nose first almost and then just went in. It happened real fast. The explosion and fireball was intense. I was maybe a mile away and it shook the ground hard. I saw one small flailing object fly into the air from the impact. It was a human. But it was from afar and looked like a dark stick figure just sort of go up and them back down.
TIKI said on Wednesday, September 10, 2008, 15:33
As Im Said b4- we probably won’t be seeing Smoke at the memorial, uness someone decides to light up a bowl. Seriously, Smoke, unless you lost someone in the air or on the ground, I can’t see why we would listen to your crap. Shut yer hole! I lost two folks in the air, and I can tell you I’ve been dealing with it for almost 30 yrs. Things I should have said, things I should’ve said. Whatever. Better yet, why don’t you come down and join us and make sure it’s not a specticle you dumb shit. Dano, Brother- and Carrie, G, K .J, and everyone else, lets meet and heal ourselves. I can’t tell you how many folks hear my story and say, ” I’am so sorry” and I believe it, but how can they know like you people? My fist is raised brother! Come one, Come all, Mahalo, TIKI
TIKI said on Wednesday, September 10, 2008, 15:37
Oh, BTW, I like my Cap’n crunch with whith chocolate chip and coconut on frozen yogurt, so Bite my ass Smoke, you MFer. All The Best, Mahalo, TIKI
TIKI said on Wednesday, September 10, 2008, 15:51
One last roll, my honey that I knew from National Airlines, based out of Miami, was my highschool sweetheart. She took me to the Bahamas on my graduation, and during that trip became my wife, after learning of all the comped goodies newleyweds had back then. We got everything annulled 2 weeks later as we left, but the emotion was there. Get it? Times went on and I started driving for factory teams amd ended up back in SD, my hometown, driving for Porsche. The rest is history. Please try to understand, Mahalo, TIKI
TIKI said on Wednesday, September 10, 2008, 15:54
Dano. Brother in arms. I look forward to shaking your hand. David, AKA TIKI
Smoke said on Wednesday, September 10, 2008, 20:42
I am telling you all, man, you cats just don’t get that it ain’t cool to roll into that grid so you can work through your 30-year old junk. Like I said, pool your wad, hire some counselors, and do maybe a group therapy thing…………..NOT in front of someone’s house! You can all be “brothers in arms” on the couch, not in the damsn street! A couple of you people need to be examined first, but you might make the cut. A psych would find out. Look, it was a bad deal that day. Awful. But planes crash, cars wreck, boats sink, buildings crumble, rivers flood, and the earth shakes. Guess what? People die. They die. Dead. Gone. Loved ones. But more than half you voyueristic, blood junkies on here didn’t know Joe Blow on that plane, yet you plan on going ultra-geek and jacking up the hood to satisfy your lust. Absurd! I’ll bet this Tiki cat and this whack job Dano get hard. Seriously, people, forget about the Dwight Street Ho-Down and Boundary Bash. Get a life. Stay away. Captain Christ, THINK!
Smoke said on Wednesday, September 10, 2008, 20:51
And one last thing, as someone who lives near your mecca, and who lived near there when the plane went in, I can tell that about 80 percent of you are so full of self-stink that I laugh so hard it hurts holy hell out of my hinges.
TIKI said on Wednesday, September 10, 2008, 21:16
Yeah Smoke, you were one of the assholes pilfering off the bodies right? I look forward to meeting you Brah, Faa’ Alo Faa’ Ali Asshole, TIKI
Carrie said on Wednesday, September 10, 2008, 23:14
Tiki- as much as I agree with your feelings toward Smoke- please lets not turn this blog into a game of bashing one another anymore. Tiki, you are very bold to speak your mind and I do agree with your heart on the matter but we should not forget the reason this blog is alive to remember those lost and those who have been brave enough to hash up memories they would rather not talk about. In this blog are over 250 entries from people who cared. And out of those 250, only one has a problem with a short morning memorial. Keep your heart strong Tiki : )
If others feel this strongly about not wanting people visiting the area, maybe it is time they express their concern. It’s not WHAT you say, but HOW you say it. I have a hard time taking seriously a person who still refers to people as “cats” and ends his rage with “Captain Christ.” Last I checked, Christ is King. The sad truth is that the area is not a gated community, but a public street. As long as everyone respects the “hood” which I am confident everyone will. If Smoke has such a problem, maybe he should call the cops to block off the street and keep visitors back. Considering all the detectives, emergency workers, former and current law enforcement officers (Dano included) and journalists that I hear also plan to be there, maybe Smoke can take it up with them. I seriously doubt we are all “blood junkies” and the only one who is “creep-show creepy” is the one with no heart in the matter. Need I say more?
TIKI said on Thursday, September 11, 2008, 0:29
Talofa Carrie, I must apogize for my previous entries. Goes to show what migraines do- mis-spelled words etc. My mission here is only comfort and understanding. I’am sorry for the occasional outburst. Mahalo, Tiki
Dano said on Thursday, September 11, 2008, 8:06
Perfectly stated Carrie! Tkki, take heart brother !! .Smoker is the proverbial “one in every crowd” and if he wants to come out and muddy his waters on the 25th then he can go join his buds at the CJ men’s social club downtown. If he wants to join us and seek to heal his obviously troubled soul then we should embrase him. We all know why we will be there and that is all that counts. We humans are amazing in our ability to find compassion for each other through the worst of times. I truly believe that is just one of God’s gift’s to all of us. So let’s all stay our course and look forward to warm handshakes and hugs and the celebration of life and courage !! But for today let’s all take a moment to pray for all those who lost so much 7 years ago. God Bless All
James Lee Vanocrebel said on Thursday, September 11, 2008, 10:16
What a bloody, nasty mess this crash was. Just looked like those poor people had been in a shredder after that hit. It took us about three weeks to clean the side of our house on Boundary and even then we ended up having to repaint. My brother was gardening one night and found bone shards as I was inside watching the Olympics on TV. In 1988! Five small bone shards in the back garden area. I’ll never forget hearing him from back there….”My God! Look at this!” We took them in and a few weeks later found out they belonged to a PSA Flight 182 passenger. We had one body in our front yard, a middle-aged female, I’ll never forget it. She had that horror look on her face. It took me years to get past that. She was partially dismembered but it was that look in her face. I hated the sight of it. Like she had seen a ghost. Pants were messy too, so those accounts posted here are true. Everyone must have been horrified. Terrible, terrible, day I wish never happened. Trust me. You don’t want to go through something like this. A memorial gathering is ok. We don’t live there anymoe, but I wouldn’t have a problem with it.
Kensington Kris said on Thursday, September 11, 2008, 16:29
I have to agree with Smoke on some level. I don’t know that it is such a good idea to gather in that neighborhood en masse that morning. You must think of the people who live there. I know Smoke seems rude, and I don’t approve of his manner, but I must say I believe he is correct. I lost my parents on the American Airlines flight in Chicago in 1979. I lived on in North Lake, Illinois for many, many years, raised by my Aunt and Uncle. Every so often a memorial of sorts would come up and a few people would attend. We never did. There was and still is a mobile home park nearby and many of the residents in it were unhappy with the occasional sightseers in the area. Luckily, there were no gatherings there of a large nature like this one seeme to be. I understand your need to grieve, but perhaps this is not the best manner to do so. I knwo I never wished to bring my sorrow to strangers in the area my parents died in. Think about this.
D. Allison said on Thursday, September 11, 2008, 17:20
I understand your concerns Kris, and I know it seem like it could potentially creep folks out. But humans are compassionate, and hopefully, sensitive enough to understand the grief of those impacted by this horrendous crash. They can put up with some minor inconveniences for one hour out of one day. They moved there knowing it was the site of the crash, so they will be fine. Unless the mourners are causing havoc and making a mess with cig butts and trash, they should not be upset by flowers and stuffed animals.
Dano said on Friday, September 12, 2008, 7:50
Good Morning All….First let me begin by letting Kris know how sad it was to read about losing your parents in that terrible accident . A USAF bud of mine from Kankakee lost his brother and sister in that crash too.. He has related to me before that he wished there was more done to remember all who died that day ..So you see everyone has a different way of dealing with their loss and grief. If you have read some these posts in detail then you start to see some of the less apparent details of the PSA 182 crash. Some North Park residents were essentially left to clean up there properties of human body fluids and other crash debris. Can you imagine !! That was just plain wrong!!.. But you also see so much written about how the neighbhorhood rallied and rose from the ruins so to speak.. I believe that the anyone coming to North Park for a little time on the 25th will be there for reverence and respect and we don’t want the press or doucmentary filming going on ..just let us come and go. For me, it will be the one time I go there ever ! I have one huge exception to the comment that smoke SEEMS rude.. Don’t lay that Sugarcoated BS on me.. The dude is off the Charts with his rude and crude comments !! But I’ve been shot at , spit on and hit so he has nothing for me. l welcome his presence there if he has the courage to join us. And just so you all know if there is mess left there I will clean it myself and not leave it for North Park to do so like 30 years ago. Respectfully Dano. Good Bless All
Andrew said on Friday, September 12, 2008, 19:27
So, let me see if I understand this. If a tragic event happens in the middle of the ocean, among sky scrapers, or in front of a random liquor store, then it’s o.k. to re-visit the “site”
as much as you want,
with as many flowers and candles as you want,
when you want,
for as long as you want?
BUT… a plane for some reason crashes in a quiet little neighborhood in San Diego,
nobody says or does anything memorial like except a tiny plaque at a library, and thanks to the miracle of the internet, people with years of pain are finally able to connect and get some things dealt with over the course of a couple hours on a weekday morning- and people have a problem with this?
Yes these are peoples homes with all due respect, but were not talking about a week long reunion here.
I am so unbelievably sickened by this attitude that tries to define the limits of human grief and question. Why should anyone be rebuked about where and why they grieve and for how long?
Unbelievable.
Jeff said on Sunday, September 14, 2008, 8:04
I am sure nobody in the neighborhood would mind a short ceremony and remembrence as long as there are no tresspassers on yards and a blockage of traffic. Also the intersection should be cleaned before departing. Smoke, please use current slang words my friend…I am 42 years old and the term “Cats” was long before my time. So in the spirit of using a current slang word, Smoke don’t act like a “tool” on the board please.
Joe Crawford said on Sunday, September 14, 2008, 15:37
I am beginning to think, based on how this conversation is going, that it might be better if this thread were closed, as the author of this post, I’ve been heartened by how many people have shared their experiences about this tragedy over the years. But if the thread is just going to be namecalling and garbage, it should be closed.
Please remember to be respectful, and just because someone is rude or unkind to you, does not mean you have to be rude to them.
Thank you all for sharing in a respectful manner.
Bob Campbell said on Sunday, September 14, 2008, 17:02
I’m affraid Mr. Ctawford may be right on this one. For those of us who worked the scene, this was a very, very real incident- nothing we learned of through friends or “newsreels”. I’m very proud of what I contributed during my “12 hr. shift” there. Somehow I feel we deserve better than the posts of late. We’ve been packing this thing around for thirty years- I just hope to see the number become 50 or 60. So much to be grateful for, particularly in view of our friends who God claimed back in 1978, Lets just let it be what it is. Respectfully,
Dano said on Monday, September 15, 2008, 7:21
Joe.. I apologize for my comments and losing sight of the spirit and intent of this blog. May those who choose to stop by on 25th have a safe journey and peace be with you.. God Bless All
TIKI said on Wednesday, September 17, 2008, 16:26
In respect to what Smoke was saying…………I would hope everyone behaves with a certain amount of decorum based on the solemn occasion and not walk into or onto peoples yards. I would be upset too. Can you believe ME agreeing with Smoke? What has become of me ! Mahalo TIKI
Anthony Villareal said on Thursday, September 18, 2008, 8:35
This crash was mega nasty for sure. I was young, just 13, but I remember all of it. We were in school when it happened, but my parents and grandparents lived on the same block and were near the crash site. Mother picked me up at school at Noon and told me in the car o the way home what happened. I was pretty freaked out. When we got hoem I coudl smell the crash from a few blocks away and there were emergency vehicles and people everywhere.
A Channel 39 female reporter whom I have forgetten her name, they were driving in their truckdown our street shen suddenly the door flew open and she got out and threw up in the street. She went ot her knees a moment, got back in and they drove off. Unreal. Bad, bad day in the SD.
Rick said on Thursday, September 18, 2008, 17:24
This crash has been in and out of my life over the years.
I was on a United flight to Sacramento a week or so after the PSA crash. I remember another passenger had a Life magazine with the famous photo as a 2 page spread. A flight attendant asked him to put it away.
In 1980 I was in a law enforcement academy in L.A. and we were shown a slide presentation from the L.A. Coroner’s office, photos they had taken while assisting in San Diego. It was a presentation on disaster response. Other posters have already detailed the level of human destruction so I won’t elaborate, but a few years later I was one of the first responders to the Aero Mexico DC-9 mid-air in Cerritos. Sad as it is to say, the photos from PSA 182 helped prepare me for what awaited in Cerritos. Hard to believe it’s been 30 years.
Dano said on Friday, September 19, 2008, 10:03
You know what I believe has happened to ya Tikki.. I believe you have let your let go of your defensive feelings and see things in a different light.. I too had to let go of my initial feelings of bristling at smokes comments and when you pair away his rude conveyance, he has valid concerns. In reality we all have valid concerns..Those of us who do not want 30 years to go by without showing that we still care deeply for not only friends and family lost but the many who are still with us carrying some serious baggage for just doing their jobs. Those of us who feel this way do not want a formal gathering mostly so we can be respectful of North Park and it’s residents. But we also do not want this to be a media event. We just want to come and spend a few moments in thought and reverence then maybe some of us who meet there could move to the library memorial and share more thoughts and feelings if we want. That for me will be very healing and good for my soul. I hope all who feel the need to be there leave thier trepidation behind and come . Just tread lightly …God Bless All
Mikey said on Saturday, September 20, 2008, 0:16
I just drove on that street today, Dwight and Nile in North Park, San Diego and also Polk and 32nd street on the other side of University Ave about 7.0 to 1 mile from each other….absolutely nothing special on the surface… a couple of houses look like they were built more recently (early 80’s) than some others that look like they were built in the 20’s…kind of a depressing neighborhood with the 805 freeway whistling down the embankment behind the houses on Nile I believe…I did get the feeling how wacked it would be for a commercial airline could come crashing down on such an unassuming neighborhood like that at 9 AM in the morning….I think if I lived within the vicinity of this neighborhood it would probably drive me crazy to drink and a psychiatrist…..I could just imagine what this sight looked like at that early morning hour 30 years ago…amazing!! I saw some neighbors getting into their cars and doing gardening and the such there and thought do these people know what happened right there 3 decades ago and if they do doesn’t that kind of spook them a little on a spiritual plain….It would me…I think walking a dog around there late at night stoned for instance would give me weird vibrations im thinking….Well enough of the macabre, it was an unfortunate and tragic incident that I heard about 20 years ago when I moved to San Diego and I finally for curiousities sake dropped by the neighborhood in detail.
TIKI said on Saturday, September 20, 2008, 10:37
Yeah Dano, I must be mellowing with age. LOL
TIKI said on Sunday, September 21, 2008, 10:57
Joe Crawford, I would ask that you don’t shut this great site down just for the sake of a few bad entries. I,am a native San Diegan and it kills me to think some folks don’t get the fact that all those poor souls that died that day belonged to someone. Please think about it ok?
jimman said on Sunday, September 21, 2008, 19:02
IS it true that the flight crew were partying untill 4 am the night before the crash ?
jimman said on Sunday, September 21, 2008, 19:09
And withheld from the final NTSB report and why ?
Bob C. said on Sunday, September 21, 2008, 20:35
http://www.airdisaster.com/reports/ntsb/AAR79-05.pdf. URL for NTSB report.
Barry Vernon said on Sunday, September 21, 2008, 21:39
We used to do layovers in Sacramento at the Holiday Inn in dowtown Sac. I was with Western and then Air Cal. PSA was there sometimes but they had another layover place just outside of downtown and I can’t recall the name of it now. Anyhow, it was well known that if you had the time, it was worth a cab ride over there to their hotel if a PSA crew or two was there. There flight attendants were fun to party with and horny as heck. I was a male flight attendant but no jokes please. Straight as as arrow. My buddy was two and we used to stop at a liquor store and get a couple bottles of hooch and some rubbers and have them with us if we caught on to a PSA party. It didn’t happen every time, but often enough. You could get some leg, a few cheap drinks, and maybe even some blow dust if it was a good party. I know this sounds bad, but it is quite true. It was the 70’s and it was the way things were. PSA pilots and flight attendants were KNOWN party animals. Lots of PSA pilots cheated on their wives and a few flight attendants cheated on their husbands. Their was bi stuff going on, lots of green weed, and late nights. Just telling you the facts. I personally know of one PSA pilot who was totally drunk when he got out to Sac Metro one morning. I helped him get sobered. They were staying at the airport hotel there and had call girls drive way out there and they all partied nonstop through the night . The word I heard re: 182…the crew was out dolly chasing and/or drinking real late that Sunday. They all were going to be off-duty when 182 landed that morning in Sand Dog so they went real late, thinking it was an easy day ahead. Two of the flight attendants on that flight were with each other, if you know what I mean, in the hotel lobby and were told to “take it upstairs.” This was all common knowledge amongst all flight crews that worked Sacramento…that the 182 crew was partying and philandering hardy the night before. With all due respect, it should be noted not all members of the crew were like that. I heard the same four or five names, Capt. McFerron was not one of them but who knows?
D. Allison said on Monday, September 22, 2008, 13:44
Sad stuff. But, it is important to know that this one of only two major accidents for PSA’s entire history. The other one was in the 80s, and it was due to a disgruntled PSA employee. However, that does not excuse the fact that these folks were all killed due to having a delirious flight crew, if that truly is the case. Either way, thank God times have changed, and flying and rules are much safer and stringent.
TIKI said on Monday, September 22, 2008, 14:17
Hey Smoke, I would like to extend my hand in a show of good faith. I would also to be willing to stand on the sidewalk in front of your crib to make sure noone intrudes into your property. Let me know, TIKI
Jacque said on Monday, September 22, 2008, 14:21
http://photos.signonsandiego.com/080920PSA?page=1 Photoe
SusanM. said on Monday, September 22, 2008, 14:24
I’m glad for this site, as it must help those who lost a loved one. I have never forgotten that morning, the mushroom cloud rising up in the sky as I drove west into Lemon Grove. It was the only time I have ever seen anything like that, and it didn’t feel real. Even though my family had lived a short distance away in North Park for many years, none of us visited the site out of respect for the people who already had so much chaos to deal with. I do think that now, if it helps people to visit on the 30 year anniversary, other folks who don’t feel the need should not be unkind or try to prevent it. I’m sure that most of the people who live there expect it, and will understand.
I also want to add that I was deeply disturbed to read the comments by people who were among the looters. Even if they didn’t participate, it was wrong to not report the incidents in the interest of items being returned to families. People who are still holding onto personal effects should contact authorities, even if anonymously, and find out where to return them. I shuddered at the lack of respect.
RIP all those who perished on that tragic day.
SusanM. said on Monday, September 22, 2008, 19:07
I just wanted to add, that a link to the passenger list was posted in today’s SD Union: http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/metro/19980921-481-lessonsf.html#list
The 30 year anniversary story is here: http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/metro/20080922-9999-1n22psa.html
Bob Campbell said on Monday, September 22, 2008, 21:18
Any other airline pilots who “worked” in North Park on the 25th? And thanx Jacque for the URL to the photo archives- many I never seen. Boy, I was all over those blocks, what memories.
Smoke said on Monday, September 22, 2008, 21:28
Hey Tiki, I’d smoke the proverbial peace pipe with you. You are ok in my book. Everyone got on me about wanting my place respected, but I understand. I was being a smartass. But it raised my ire because at 20, right after I moved in here from down the street, and 25 we had people stomping around in the yard. I understand the reasoning behind being here, just not the intrusion. But it is ok with me if people want to smoke with pipe with Smoke. This is a sad time here. Major sad. The neighborhood feels real sad right now brothers and sisters. Look I am just on old OB and IB surfer dude who wants respect for all.
Carrie E said on Monday, September 22, 2008, 21:54
I was in third grade at McKinley Elementary and I remember looking up through the slats of the bungalow and seeing the plane going down, in flames. I remember my friend’s mom picking me up and taking me home. My mom was freaking out that it had hit the school. We were only half a mile away and it WAS amazing that it didn’t hit us.
The whole school seemed to be lined up on the street, watching the smoke and flames.
I hate flying. After I had kids and a couple of bad turbulence flights, I stopped completely and it wasn’t until this year when I had to make some emergency flights that I have flown in the past 7 years.
I still have nightmares of airplanes crashing and yet have to watch all the Seconds to Disaster and Air Emergency shows.
Trey153 said on Monday, September 22, 2008, 21:59
Those are great shows….most episodes are posted on youtube. I am a pilot and I learn a lot from other people’s mistakes (unfortunately).
Carrie E said on Monday, September 22, 2008, 22:08
Yes, I think watching those shows and seeing what went wrong gives me hope that they FIXED whatever the problem was. Having another plane fly into you isn’t really anything you can plan on correcting though.
My inlaws fly all the time and they mock me for my fear of flying. I suppose they never had a plane drop in their backyard so how can they understand?
Trey153 said on Monday, September 22, 2008, 22:15
Well actually it can be corrected and it was (for the most part). This crash and Aeromexico 498 led to the establishment of the modern airspace system and the mandatory implementation of TCAS (Traffic Collision Avoidance System)
TIKI said on Monday, September 22, 2008, 22:34
Hey Smoke, I’am genuinely stoked that you have accepted my outstreached hand. I’am too a aged surfer from Mt Helix, having my 1st board given to me by my dad on my 6th birthday. I’am 52 now, and don’t get out into the surf as much as I would like. My offer comes from my heart, I will stand on the sidewalk in front of your home and keep folks from intruding. I honestly hope everyone respects the area, its residents, and each other, and I believe they will. TIKI
Mr. Resident said on Monday, September 22, 2008, 22:35
The passenger that was the flying, screaming man that impacted a car on Nile was witnessed by not only myself, but the neighbor across the street, and an SDG&E meter reader who ran to me in fright as the plane was coming in. I didn’t see it. I had my weedeater on and was with my back turned to the area up the street. I turned just as it went in and within a second here was this human being, high pitched wail that has haunted me my entire life since, flying toward us. arms outstretched. He was a young white man. He hit the car of a friend of a neighbor’s and was killed on impact, maybe 10 yards to the south of where we were standing. The was a tremendous amount of blood and tissue in the impact. I don’t think I even realized what I was seeing for a brief few seconds and then it occurred to me and panic ensued. It was utterly terrifying and I don’t know that I didn’t briefly black out. The SDG & E employee helped me to my feet and we initially ran down the street and then turned an ran back for no apparent reason other than fear. I wasn’t aware of this blog and my son helped me write this account. I am 76 years old and not a computer person. But since this incident has appeared here, why not convey my account? I am unwilling to discuss this matter any further, but assuredly it was a terrible day for all and one I have NEVER gotten past in all my years in San Diego.
Carrie said on Monday, September 22, 2008, 23:15
Wow is all I have to say. I had wanted to meet at least one other person who felt the way I do about this whole thing and am truly amazed at the outpouring of support from most everyone. Tiki, your gesture of peace is what it is all about. Questions with no possible explanations are being answered for so many this 30th year. I am happy Smoke is showing himself to be a “cool cat” after all. I was concerned that it may not be safe for me to be there on Thursday, but I feel good about adding this chapter to my life now. I was reading comments left by others on signonsandiego. Very similar to the posts here. Also many pictures I had never seen that put a lot into perspective.
It was so touching to see an actual list of the passengers who so sadly left us that day. To put actual names to the numbers. God keep them I pray.
To Dano, Trey153, Tiki, D.Allison, G., many others and yes, even you Smoke… I hope I can meet you all somehow among the people.
Until then… Safe traveling and God Speed.
Chip Howes said on Monday, September 22, 2008, 23:25
I witnessed it happen with my little brother, Ned, while we were students at Saint Augustine High School. It was terrifying and changed our lives. We donated #2 pencils while watching soft bags of human remains being delivered to our gym.
God Bless,
Chip Howes
Trey153 said on Tuesday, September 23, 2008, 0:56
As much as I’d like to meet all of you, I do not live in the San Diego area. Believe it or not, I live in FL and have no connection to any of the people who were in this accident. Like some of the other posters on here I felt drawn to this crash for some odd reason. I am familiar with all the major plane crashes, but this one for some reason has made me do google searches on it as well as bookmarking and reading the posts on this blog daily.
Dano said on Tuesday, September 23, 2008, 7:54
How good it is to see differences put aside and focus on what is really important..Being decent and compassionate human beings. Aside from tragic connections, many of us have much more as our posts continue.. I was raised in Santa Cruz and spent plenty of time on my stick at the “Lane” or ‘It’s”. Anyone who surfs is ok in my book.. So like Tiki, I won’t stand for anyone invading Smokes property.. Let’s all go and and be proud to be compassionate humans.. Something of a rare commodity these days.. I have a lot to be greatful for and the 25th is just one of many heartfelt things I’ll be doing in SD that week. I really hope to find those of you who feel this way and share our special feelings. Since I’m also a director for Lake Valley FD Lake Tahoe Ca, I’ll be wearing my colors in honor of all emergency responders. Hopefully I will be easier to find that way too.. Hope to see those of you who can be there and I will stand in honor of those who cannot make it. Travel safe and God speed to all.
TIKI said on Tuesday, September 23, 2008, 8:39
Hey Dano, I will definately look for you on Thurs. I’ll be wearing my Porsche colors. Carrie needs to give us a hint on how to find her. And I DO want to shake your hand Smoke, so make yourself visible brother. Mahalo TIKI
Kevin said on Tuesday, September 23, 2008, 11:04
For those of us who cannot be there this week, I hope that someone takes some video footage and posts it on Utube. I will be thiinking of all of you and praying for the lost souls on Thursday. My father was on PSA182.
David said on Tuesday, September 23, 2008, 11:23
According to the transcripts, prior to the collision, it sounds as if there was a lot of side conversation going on in the cockpit. Is this normal? I am not a pilot and would be interested in hearing from others more experienced. I would think that minutes before landing are the most crucial, a significant amount of conversation in the cockpit just minutes before the collision concerned life insurance (strange coincidence) about Aetna, with side laughter. I’m not implying laxness from the crew but I was surprised to read a lot of “chatter†going on while in a landing pattern.
susan elizaga said on Tuesday, September 23, 2008, 13:09
… evrey year at random times i can’t help but break down in tears about a man i barely new. i look at photots and see discovery channel specials and reminders in the paper, come 9-25 of every year- and it breaks my heart. my uncle was a flight attendant on PSA… catching the earlier flight back home to see, what was then my baby cousin, his son amancio jr. … the earlier flight… just to see his baby boy, and family… i wish he stayed on schedule…
susan elizaga said on Tuesday, September 23, 2008, 13:13
oh, and he used to sing a jingle for the passengers sometime with his uke… i can’t remember exactly how it went but it started off with…
“PSA gives you a lift… PSA gives you a lift… rain or shine in California, P.S.A.!” my heart goes out to all of your families invovled… they’re looking down on us everyday~
Steven Dietz said on Tuesday, September 23, 2008, 13:41
Kevin,
I read your earlier post about your Father. Sorry for your loss. I am sure there will be something posted on youtube for you. If not the Dave Fresina will be filming.
Bob Campbell, ATP said on Tuesday, September 23, 2008, 14:03
RE: Cockpit chatter: There are “sterile cockpit” restrictions generally below 10,000 some of which are company policies and some are regulatory. I can’t remember the exact regulatory restrictions right now that were current in 1978, but either way, the facts are this flight was proceeding normally, and this was an unfortunate and unforeseen event. Everything about it, from the flight crew conversation, to the FE’s communications with (company) dispatch regarding cups, napkins or whatever, is utterly routine and typical. The ATC and CVR transcripts show that that this flight crew was being very diligent with regard to their VFR duties on the “profile” to 27 at Lindberg.
Like so many other similar aviation incidents, this one just happened to be that once-in-a-lifetime mixture of minute circumstances and events that will never happen again. To be sure, crashes will occur, just this one will not occur again- most don’t. All of this is best illustrated by the fact that it happened, and nobody wanted it to; everybody was doing their jobs per usual, in the customary manner. Additionally, in referring the flight crew information in the NTSB report, it’snoted this flight crew was enormously experienced, and nobody had the number of daily operations and hours flown (for a FAR 121 operator) than PSA. Nobody was more traffic-savvy that PSA- they had to be. The fact is the company amassed an admirable record of safety.
Lee Jenkins said on Tuesday, September 23, 2008, 15:32
Ah but it did happen again. Not to the exact replication, but less than ten years later nonetheless, a mid-air crach took place for a jetliner on final approach to LAX. To say something like this cannot happen again is purely silly. Maybe not EXACTLY as this crash, but similar.
Bob Campbell, ATP said on Tuesday, September 23, 2008, 16:55
Exact is the only context for my remarks, given the content of the post. That was the whole point. It’s just intended to be informational for those who might have questions, and the inclination to discriminate the difference.
SusanM. said on Wednesday, September 24, 2008, 6:38
To all the people who are hoping to find some closure and solace in uniting for a memorial tomorrow morning, I hope you find it. Good luck, god bless, and I’ll being praying for all the lost souls and loved ones at 9:00 tomorrow morning.
Steven Dietz said on Wednesday, September 24, 2008, 7:36
Susan M,
Well said.
Ren Nesper said on Wednesday, September 24, 2008, 7:53
Years ago, when I was taking a course on forensics at the University of Texas, we had a segment on fragmentation/degloving/comingling and PSA 182 was the case study. It is how I became familiar with this crash. I had heard of it, but I grew up in San Antonio and had never been to San Diego, so it was a distant news story in 1978, albeit a headliner. I was a senior in high school when this plane crashed. In the course segment, they showed us a series of photographs of the victims within the context of the level of difficulty in identifying them. To say they were in bad shape would be the grossest of understatements. There has been several posts here regarding a screaming, flying man. Well, in one set of large, color photos, it showed a coroner working on a male who was sticking out the back of an automobile, his upper portion inside the car, legs sticking straight out. It was several hours after impact and rigor mortis had set, so he literally looked like a stick figure from the waist back. I am guessing this was the flying man described in several posts here. His skull impacted the back of the driver’s side front seat and literally exploded inside the automobile, so the coroner was carefully gathering what he could. It had to be a horrible assignment. Some of us felt weak and nauseated after viewing those photos but hung in there. Imagine the poor folks working the crash.They have my full respect.
D. Allison said on Wednesday, September 24, 2008, 10:31
Hello all! I will be praying for all of you tomorrow morning. I will not be able to attend the memorial, due to living in Illinois. God bless you all, and let me know how it goes. Also, Kevin, I am so sorry about your dad, and you will be in my prayers as well. And Susan, I am sorry about your uncle. He sounds like a fun person and a great dad. God bless!
TIKI said on Wednesday, September 24, 2008, 11:14
I feel like a lot of you have become extended family members. For those who can’t attend, I will be there among others from here, and we will all carry your spirit with us. Mahalo,TIKI
Gary Schulte said on Wednesday, September 24, 2008, 13:41
PSA Plane Crash
I was having a bowl of cereal in my North Park apartment before heading off to Grossmont College for accounting class at 10 AM.
As I read the morning paper I heard an explosion followed quickly by another. I leaned back in my chair looking out the front door and saw flight 182 at about 4,000 feet and on fire. I moved to my front balcony and cried out in horror as I watched the aircraft descending in an arc, right wing low, apparently trying to make it to Lindbergh field. I continued to watch as the aircraft impacted the ground, nose down, right wing low, at about 200+ mph. I knew there could be no survivors. This was the most dramatic thing I had ever experienced in my life and I asked myself what I should do? I grabbed my camera, jumped in my 1965 VW bug, and was at the crash site in about 5 minutes. I parked, jumped some fences, and was standing within 25 feet of several burning buildings all the while seeming as if I was watching the whole thing on TV because it was surreal. I began to become aware of things around me and first noticed a shoeless foot on the sidewalk at my feet, then a torso and head across the street but only one small piece of wreckage, just a piece of sheet metal really. There were no large junks of anything resembling a 727. I shot about a dozen pictures, stayed for around 10 minutes and then headed back towards my car. Located about 2 blocks away I looked down to find a persons hand laying in the street gutter. At 10 am I was sitting in that accounting class, hearing other students mumbling about what they had heard on the radio about a plane crash, just thinking what they would think if they knew what I had just gone through. I didn’t sleep well for about the next week.
There are several interesting aspects to how I’ve been connected to this event. I finished school and became a licenced Airframe and Powerplant mechanic. My first job was working for PSA. I became a licenced pilot. I grew up in the neighborhood where the crash occured. My Dad had just driven down the same street the plane crashed on (Nile) 10 minutes earlier. I went to St. Augustine High School where the gym was used as a temporary morgue and lastly, several of the Priests who gave the last rites to the bodies had been my teachers. During my career as an airline mechanic I kept my photos of the crash in my tool box as a reminder of how important my job was. This event was very personal to me and left a lasting impression on my life.
Marty Fahrenwald said on Wednesday, September 24, 2008, 14:02
On Sept. 25, 1978, I was a 19-year-old Navy recruit in Company 125 at Naval Training Center. For several days leading up to that fateful Monday, there had been thick smoke blanketing NTC, drifting down from a huge fire in Wildcat Canyon. It was so hot, and the smoke so thick, that NTC had ceased marching recruit companies on the “grinder” (the parade grounds). The only marching we had done for at least a couple of days was from our barracks to the mess hall and back. As I recall, Sept. 25 was a clear day, though still very hot. We were outside our barracks that morning, polishing our “boondockers” (boots). I looked toward North Park and saw a column of black smoke rising, and wondered aloud if another brush fire had started (it didn’t occur to me at that moment that the smoke was the wrong color). Within a few minutes, word had spread that someone in my company had seen the crash happen. It’s true that some Navy personnel were sent up to the crash site to assist with clean-up, but no one in my recruit company was involved. The horrible memories of some on this blog have been heart-breaking to read. I will never forget that day, but I don’t have nightmares over it like others have. Strangely, I found myself at Chicago O’Hare Airport in May ‘79, getting ready to catch a flight to Michigan, when that DC-10 crashed there. And I was going to be flying on a DC-10. Very weird. I still don’t enjoy flying even today, as I’m staring at 50.
Steven Dietz said on Wednesday, September 24, 2008, 14:37
Gary Schulte,
Wow. That is amazing. Must have terrible memories for you. If your photographs have never been published you may want to share them with Dave Fresina. He is currently filming a documentary on the accident. Thanks.
Meggie said on Wednesday, September 24, 2008, 15:17
I remember the events of this crash like it was yesterday. I was 17 at the time and working at the Bob’s Big Boy on Clairemont Mesa Blvd. One of our waitresses lived on Nile Street and she was, understandably, in a panic trying to find out if her husband and children were ok. It all seemed surreal. And, although I didn’t know a soul on the plane or on the ground, I cried for a week. I went down to the crash site 3 weeks later with a bouquet of flowers and said heartfelt prayers for all…and cried yet again. It seemed like to it took months for me to grieve over this event – which I never quite understood. But I knew my grief was absolutely nothing compared to those of you who lost someone they loved… The crash of PSA 182 forever altered my feelings about flying. My family moved here from Florida in 1977 and I spent all of that year and most of 1978 working hard just to be able to have enough money to buy plane tickets to fly back home – which I did, several times a year. But Flight 182 changed all that for me and I became very fearful of flying. So much so, that in the 30 years since the crash I’ve rarely flown at all. But, the times I have, as the plane starts its’ descent into Lindbergh field, I find myself looking down at the 805 and feeling yet another stab of grief for those poor people who died. I am so impressed by all that everyone has generously shared here. My thoughts and prayers are with you all…
TIKI said on Wednesday, September 24, 2008, 15:33
Hello Meggie, And thank you for adding your thoughts to this site. My wife at the time was a flight attendant on 182. She absolutely loved working at PSA and found that it reminded her of working at National airlines when we were both living in Miami. Very similar carriers at the time. Instead of having smiles located on the front of the planes like PSA, National named each of theirs and had the names decoratively painted on each side of the fuselage, by the forward doors. The ads ran, ” Fly Cindy to Atlanta ” etc. Both airlines were based in those major cities. Coming from Fla. maybe you remember the ads? Will you be joining us tomorrow? Let me know, Mahalo-TIKI
Greg said on Wednesday, September 24, 2008, 17:38
Dano, Tiki, Carrie and others -
Having flown in from the east coast so I could be there tomorrow, I will look for you and hope to meet you in the morning in that neighborhood (khaki shorts). This is the first time I have arranged to go to the site to observe an anniversary of a very special friend’s death.
PS to Smoke, it was very heartening to see things get fixed up with you also. I am very sure we’ll all be very respectful there, and your most recent postings were a nice relief.
TIKI said on Wednesday, September 24, 2008, 19:35
Greg-
I look forward to meeting you tomorrow, I just hope there’s not a glut of khaki shorted guys walking around. Later- TIKI
Richard S. Van Dyke, Esq. said on Wednesday, September 24, 2008, 19:39
I was in HS at Point Loma High School that day. When I heard the news I immediately drove over to the crash site and was able to get very close. I drove down an alley next to the crash scene and witnessed two roofers who had been repairing a garage roof. The telephone pole next to the garage was broken off by the crashing airplane which literally flew right over their head with debries fanning out after impact in the other direction. Those guys were counting their blessings. In every driveway of every street surrounding the crash site were abulances. With nobody in them… A priest was walking through the site adminstering last rights. Very earie. I will never forget what I saw that day. How ironic is it that I am now a pilot and aviation disaster lawyer? Later that year, I moved into my first apartment in Point Loma and discovered that it was vacant because the prior occuapant was a flight attendant on that doomed flight. Sadly I remember the 30th anniverary of that day. Almost as bad in my mind as 9/11…
Carrie Lopez said on Wednesday, September 24, 2008, 19:41
There aren’t words to describe the horror of that fateful day. At the time, I worked at Nelson Auto Parts, now Carquest, which was located on the 4100 block of El Cajon Blvd. in San Diego. Our offices were on the second floor, and all of the staff felt the shock of the impact as the building shook as if in an earthquake. The stories available in the media don’t describe the actual horrors that took place. The sky rained with body parts everywhere. There just aren’t words to describe the atrocity of the day that will go down in infamy.
Del Burton said on Wednesday, September 24, 2008, 20:50
A post here mentioned the two roofers who dodged death. My Uncle Bruce also dodged it. He was a long-haul trucker, an Owner-Operator from the Chicago, Illinois area. He was a real BJ McKay if anybody here recalls that early-80’s tv show, young, handsome, friendly, and smart. He was 29 in Sept. 1978. He owned a big, gorgeous rig, metallic bronze and gold, and would literally be gone for two or three months at a time while my second cousin Jill, back home, was running his affairs out of his house in Melrose Park, Illinois. He was hardworking and dedicated.
From 1975 through the end of 1981 he had a regular run that brought him from Chicago to San Diego with a stop to off-load half the freight in Tucson. He loved San Diego so much he would stay on for two or three days and sort of rest up. He did it several times a year. One time while sunning at Mission Bay, he met a girl from North Park just out jogging with her dog. They talked, had a quick lunch together, went to Sea World the next day, and then kept in touch through letters and phone calls, and they eventually became close. The morning of the crash he had arrived at her place about 2 AM. He would park his rig at the distribution center in National City and then cab ride to her place for two or three days rest, always bringing with him flowers or a gift he picked up on the road. She lived on Boundary, four or five houses down on the west side, inheriting her parents home. He told me he had been restless those wee hours of the morning and by 8:30 AM had given up on sleep and got dressed for a morning walk. He loved the neighborhood and said it reminded him of the same neighborhood he lived in back in Melrose Park. He valued clean streets and families and old folks. He walked down to University, then turned around to head back to wake up his girl and start their day off together. They planned an outing to the Zoo. As he approached Dwight, coming down Nile, he noticed a flashing object out of the corner of his eye. He amazingly did not witness the impact. He heard it, but thought it was a “trash truck in the alley” and thought nothing of it. ln looking down at the morning paper as he walked he missed the impact with the little plane . The flashing object was the sun glinting off the fiery wing and when he looked back up he saw that it was a jet “coming at me like a missle.” He said he froze in fear. He literally watched for a few seconds and thought the plane would actually go further down Dwight and past him. Instead he said it appeared to nose downward steeper in the closing seconds. He had frozen in panic and simply stood there awaiting his death and watched the nose impact into a house. Instantly debris exploded “everywhere” and flew toward him. He instinctively hit the sidewalk and was peppered with small bits of debris which he said “stung” and had a partially dismembered body fly directly at him and miss him by just a few feet, as it impacted Boundary and splattered him with blood. He said he thought he would burn to death because of the “intense heat” and curled into a fetal position. He only emerged from it and got up and ran when he realized he, in fact, had made it alive and was in peril now from the spreading flames that raced up the north side of Dwight. He ran back down Boundary to his girlfriend’s home. She was in the yard screaming and crying and fainted when he ran up. She thought me might have been killed. He estimates he stepped on “half a dozen” bodies or remains on the run home. The rest of the day he helped in the neighborhood with “whomever needed it” until the police told him to stand down. He left San Diego the next day in a “state of shock” and drove a load up to Seattle to “clear his head” and then went back to Chicago to meet up with his girlfriend who flew, yes flew, back there to clear her head too. They eventually got married in the Summer of ‘82, had two children, and lived a quiet, happy life in Melrose Park, Illinois. He passed away in 2004 of a rare blood disorder he got from a blood transfusion following an accident in which he was struck by a DUI driver while walking to his rig. He put up a valiant effort and almost made it, but the loving, good-hearted truckers heart finally gave out. And just last year my “Aunt Isabelle” moved back to San Diego as her two sons have left Chicago to attend San Diego State on money Uncle Bruce earned through nearly 3 million miles of trucking. My Aunt resides in Clairmont Mesa. She will be there tomorrow to attend this anniversary, her first time back in the neighborhood since she left it in Fall 1979. In her heart will be not only the victims of this terrible tragedy, but her beloved “Brucie” as well. The man who lived through that awful day to give her 22 years of his unselfish love and two great young men and served the neighbors that day for eight hours or more having just cheated death..
norm said on Wednesday, September 24, 2008, 20:57
on said date, i was working at aztec bus lines. Just completed a school run ,talking to follow employee’s, looked up and seen black some, then heard about the crash on the radio seconds later I lived off nile 2 yrs prior. god bless everyone in san diego. one of my follow workers lost her daughter in this disaster.it will never be forgoyyen
George Cassity said on Thursday, September 25, 2008, 0:28
I will be at the site in about 8 hrs.
It has been many years since my last visit.
I’ve only gone back 2 maybe 3 times in the past 30 years.
That day is indelibly etched in my mind.
It’s difficult to put in words what I saw and did.
The heat, the stench.
.
Carrie said on Thursday, September 25, 2008, 2:13
I just arrived in San Diego from Arizona. I finished reading the last few accounts.
To Del Burton:
What an inspiration to hear about your Uncle Bruce. One of so many unnamed heros of that fateful day. He seems like he was a magnificant person and a real family man. Again, I am truely touched by your story of how this one day changed his life. I will be at the site in a few hours and hope I meet your aunt. It would be an honor to meet her.
Rick Ferguson said on Thursday, September 25, 2008, 8:33
I will only be at Dwight and Nile September 25 in spirit. I have however purchased a candle with this inscription on it; This candle was lit on September 25, 2008 at 09:01:47 pacific daylight time, the moment of impact between a small cessna aircraft and a PSA 727 jet over San Diego, Ca. on this date thirty years ago. It was allowed to burn for 144 minutes, one minute for each life lost, in remembrance of all the victums of flight 182, those who lost friends and family members, and everyone who was affected by this crash including myself. MAY THOSE WHO LOST THEIR LIVES REST IN PEACE.
Floyd said on Thursday, September 25, 2008, 8:51
9 minutes to Nine on 9/25/08 as I type this at Dwight on my laptop. 30 years ago, at this very moment, somewhere over Oceanside, the souls aboard that plane had no idea that in 11 minutes they would be leaving this world in an instant.
Meggie said on Thursday, September 25, 2008, 9:03
Tiki – thank you for your kind message. And yes, I remember National Airlines – just about the only one I flew back then. I have 3 decks of playing cards that I’ve kept in my bureau for years and years – one is a deck from PSA, one is from Eastern and the other is from National. When I was little my girlfriends and I would try to mimic the ads National Airlines had everywhere and we all thought it would be incredibly special to have our names on the side of one of their beautiful planes..”I’m Meggie…Fly Me”….which in retrospect cracks me up – can you imagine an ad like that in this day and age? Nah. I know from your posts that you are going to the memorial today – and for you and everyone else I hope and pray you each have a moment of peace through your tears…I wish I was standing there with all of you…
Carrie E said on Thursday, September 25, 2008, 9:35
It has been interesting reading that many of you who have witnessed the crash, as I did at age 8, aren’t comfortable with flying. I have people in my life who think “you just need to get over it” and “flying is safer than driving” comments are going to help. I still fly IF I have to. The destination needs to be worth it. I still have vivid memories and occasional dreams of seeing that plane through the slats of the classroom.
I am still in the San Diego area but not near North Park. I am not sure that even if I had time to get down there and back (kids are in school) if I could do it emotionally. I look at the maps and see the half mile from the site to my school and it still scares me how close we came. I’ve often wondered if the pilots had consciously steered away from our school or if it was just luck.
Matthew Houts said on Thursday, September 25, 2008, 10:14
Dude, how creepy was that lady wearing her old PSA uniform at the memorial!?
Also, the KUSI news guy was yapping on his cell phone “Yeah, I’m at the memorial, blahblahblah”, he really chapped my hide.
Shane Hartley said on Thursday, September 25, 2008, 10:52
I saw the lady in the PSA uniform. Looked like she was a victim of the crash that got up and walked away from it. Creepy! Also, the guy called Smoke. He was there. Cool dude. Said peeps repscted his yard. Effen eh,dude! He lives right there on Dwight! Surfer dude. The reporters were jerks there.
Mark said on Thursday, September 25, 2008, 10:54
I went to the site this morning at about 7:15 and there was already a Fire Department, Police and News presence. Across the corner from the impact site was a very stoic looking gentleman crouched near a tree looking over to the site as if he was saying “Aloha” to his friends or loved ones that were on the plane that fateful day – some 30 years ago.
I stopped for a moment, took a few photos of rememberance and said a prayer to the memory of all those loved ones. As I prepared to leave, i noticed other people had begun to gather as well. My mind wandered. Wonder if they’re relatives, friends or co-workers or maybe just concerned or touched in some way !
Whatever their reason, it appeared that they had genuine sincerity in their hearts to memorialize the day at this location.
In Memoriam ……………………………………………………………………………….
If anyone has any still photographs of todays gathering or any others related, please feel free to forward a copy to me at mark@mark-malter.com…… I am making a gallery on my pbase site that i will house all of the images and credit the donors. Thank you – - – -
Mark
Norm said on Thursday, September 25, 2008, 11:30
It was a beautiful clear, sunny September Monday morning that day… with not a cloud in the sky.
I was out of work and out driving that day in San Diego looking for engineering work, which is what I did back then. I was in Spring Valley and had just finished applying for a job at US Elevator when, as I was walking out of the lobby the secretary mentioned that a PSA plane just crashed in North Park.
The lobby was on a slight hill and had large windows and I walked over, looked to the west, and saw a huge plume of black smoke coming from the ground. I then got in my car and headed over to the crash scene. I got there at about 9:45am. By then the police were just finishing taping off the surrounding streets with yellow “Do not cross” tape. I parked my car and walked over to Felton street from Myrtle street where I parked. I remember seeing a little boy standing near me and we were both about half way up Felton street where the police had the street taped off. The boy (about) ten years of age) said something to me that took me by surprise… he said, “Look, there’s a face”. It did not register at first but after taking a more intense look northward up the street, I saw a head lying in the street. That is what he was referring to. I then noticed a leg and clearly recall the smell of raw flesh in the air as well as seeing bits of flesh on the street and sidewalk scattered all over the place. I was in the Navy in the 1960’s and did a Westpac on board the USS Ranger and I saw death and destruction there but nothing like this! The PSA 727 nosedived into the center of the intersection of Dwight and Boundary streets. If you go there today, you can see the street was paved over and it still shows thirty years later. The plane hit the ground with the nose facing west. The only part of the airplane that was still intact was the tail section where the intake for the middle engine had the letters PSA on it as well as part of the tail. The rest was unrecognizable. I did take a walk over to the eastern section of Dwight street where it intersects with Boundary street. The portion of Boundary from that point north was taped off by the police. One could not miss seeing the tail section of the 727 laying there in the street only 140 feet away. I have seen military airplanes run off the flight deck and fall into the sea but the pilots usually escaped. This was different though… I could not help but to imagine what all the people in that airplane were thinking when they looked out and saw the right wing on fire and then feel the airplane take a nosedive for the ground. I am a pilot and have been in some interesting situations in my time but never anything like this. Capt James McFarren and his co-pilot that day must surely have felt the worst possible feelings in that short time that they had before hitting the ground that any human being could ever care to experience. One minute you’re flying along enjoying your morning coffee and the next… you’re laying on the ground in pieces. I later drove over to the area north of that scene to observe the Cessna airplane, which caused the disaster. It was a yellow and white, high winged single engine Cessna and it was all twisted and mangled. One of the occupants I was told landed on top of an apartment building. San Diego had its hand full that day. As for me… I wished that my curiosity had not got the best of me that day, as I could not sleep for three months afterward.
I came up with some safety designs and sent them to Boeing in Seattle… they would never implement them however… too costly.
The two people in the Cessna were an instructor and a student. The student was flying the hood. That means he is wearing a hood that is similar in nature to a welders hood. The purpose is to block out all outside visual areas so that the person learns to rely on the instruments in the event of such things as flying in fog, bad weather or at night. The Cessna’s propeller was spinning and hit the wing of the 727 hard and ruptured the right wings fuel tank as well as the main hydraulic lines rendering the 727 uncontrollable. That was my experience on the morning of September 25, 1978.
Norman said on Thursday, September 25, 2008, 11:44
I was at Saints that morning, a 16-year-old junior. Unforgettable terrible day. Haunted me now for 30 years.
Meggie said on Thursday, September 25, 2008, 14:11
The UT has pictures posted of the memorial service this morning:
http://photos.signonsandiego.com/psa182-service
D. Allison said on Thursday, September 25, 2008, 14:18
God bless all of you! I have been praying for you guys, and it seems the memorial went well. Peace and blessings to all, and I know the deceased victims are tickled we all remember this event. America the beautiful. We never forget lost loves ones, even strangers.
David said on Thursday, September 25, 2008, 14:46
I echo the sentiments of others – I don’t know any of you, but I love you. I saw the photographs of the memorial service and I wanted to simply hug and give comfort. I pray that continued healing comes your way and that you find unconditional support and love as you journey on in life that is full of mysteries. God bless all of you.
Erick said on Thursday, September 25, 2008, 15:29
The PSA plain crash is one of those foggy sort of memories for me. I was 9 years old. I was walking in the hallway at Montezuma Elementary school in the San Diego State area. I remeber seeing the huge plume of smoke rising up in the distance on that otherwise crystal clear day. An hour or so later I can rember hearing about the crash from my teacher. What a terrible day.
Bob said on Thursday, September 25, 2008, 16:06
To Matthew & Shane. In regards to you disrespecting the lady wearing the PSA uniform. She knew these people. She worked with them. Obviously PSA was a big part in her life. People mourn in their own ways. Don’t make fun of people on looks. Especially on this day. If you have nothing nice to say don’t say anything.
Elaine said on Thursday, September 25, 2008, 17:48
I wanted to just say thank you for today, for not forgetting those that lost their lives 30 years ago in this awful crash. My family has moved on, with weddings, children and college. I live by the bright shining smile, energy and personality that typified my sister. She was also a flight attendant, and amazingly happy newlywed of just over a year, deadheading back to San Diego. Until this day I had never seen any of the photos of the site, except just the plane heading down with wing on fire) and though I visited San Diego a few years later I avoided the crash site. Until this day I had never heard of many of the details shared here. I did not know about a memorial service until this afternoon.
To the people like Carol who were on the ground, I wondered for years about you and and neighbors who died as a result. Today I finally know a little of what this did to those of you. To the first responders and neighbors who jumped in to help, thank you for trying to help the people on the ground and those like my sister who died. I know something about what you dealt with, it is no small thing that you did your job and that you are having to live with the memories now. One of the things I remember in the week after was that word had gotten to our family about the way San Diego had responded, thank you for your compassion.That so many cared did make me feel better at the time as I waited for my sister to be recovered.
This site was helpful in some ways, the links to the crash photos helped to give me information I didn’t have and at the time wouldn’t have been able to process anyway. This many years later I appreciate hearing from family of others who had gone through this also.
Carrie said on Thursday, September 25, 2008, 19:38
Today was a beautiful day. Not to glory in the event that brought us all together, but in the true spirit of humanity and rememberance. It was an honor to meet all of you whom for so long have needed this closure in your lives. I will never forget the peace I felt as those beautiful doves accended to the skies, and hope everyone experienced the same. Beautiful people, loving tears and supporting embraces. What all who passed would have wanted. Today I was able to rejoice that I had life and I will never take it for granted again. God is Good. May He bless and keep you all.
Norman said on Thursday, September 25, 2008, 19:43
LOS ANGELES TIMES, October 4, 1978
False Looting Stories Still Haunt San Diego
Rumors Traced to Errors by Officers at Air Crash Scene
By GEORGE FRANK
A San Diego policeman told a fellow officer a man lad been arrested while attempting to remove the upper bridge from the mouth of one of the victims left in the rubble of last week’s commercial jet liner crash.
He had no idea that the report would be retold around the world, causing concern among some city officials that San Diego had received an “international black eye.â€
The officer routinely passed the information to the department’s chief spokesman, Bill Robinson, who then relayed it to some of the 200 reporters sent to the scene of the nation’s worst air disaster.
That story, now deemed erroneous, and others, such as looters seen scavenging burned bodies for jewelry, rings, and watches, are coming back to haunt San Diego and its Police Department
Confronted with the nagging feeling that the image of San Diego, nicknamed “America’s Finest City,†was being impugned, Mayor Pete Wilson’s office quietly launched an inquiry into the accuracy of the stories.
City Hall found that the Police Department could not substantiate the stories of scavenging it had released to the reporters. Another report that seven looters had been arrested also could not be verified.
Robinson told The Times that there were rumors throughout the crash area that Monday about looting of bodies and evacuated homes. The rumors came from police officers, onlookers and some news media representatives.
“None of this was eventually substantiated,†he said.
Recalling the incident that led to issuing the statement that seven looters had been arrested, Robinson said Tuesday:
“I went to the area where the prisoners were being processed and the officer picked up the prisoner log and told me while looking at the log that there were seven persons that had been arrested for looting.â€
He said the officer, whom he would not identify, confused the Penal Code statute for looting with the one that covers those who fall to disperse when ordered by an officer.
“He apparently gave me the figures for failure to disperse thinking he was giving me giving me correct information. It was not an intentional error.”
It was too late. Minutes after the information was distributed to reporters it was being flashed around the country and around the world. Two days later, Robinson said, the error was realized when the reports were being processed.
“None of the ones arrested were charged with disturbing bodies or entering any of the damaged homes,†he said.
Three persons were arrested for removing small parts of the Pacific Southwest Airlines jet that collided with a single-engine Cessna. The two planes plunged to the earth and the air liner erupted in flames.
The night of the crash Robinson told reporters that one man had been arrested trying to remove the upper bridge a man kitted in the crash. That information, according to Robinson, came from the same officer who had given him the information about the seven arrested officers.
The officer was told of the incident by another policeman returning to the command post from the crash area, who indicated that the person was in custody and had been arrested in the act.
Robinson later pressed the officer for more details. The officer, who had been on the police force for several years, is still attempting to locate information, Robinson said.
“There is no one who feels worse about this than l do or he does,†Robinson said. “I think all of us are gui9lty of basically the same thing, perpetuating rumors.â€
Of the 43 persons arrested at the crash site, two were charged with drunkenness, three for taking souvenir pieces of the aircraft (removing evidence) and the rest for failure to disperse.
Police Chief William Kolender, in retrospect, said there should have been more “rumor control†as outlined in the Police Department’s disaster reaction plan.
Offering his explanation of how the rumors got started, Kolender said that many of his narcotics officers and undercover officers rushed to the scene. He said some have long hair and beards and dress like street people. A few of the officers were going through the rubble looking for survivors and bodies.
“Onlookers may have thought these people were looters,†Kolender said.
Then some of the onlookers told uniformed officers nearby that there were looters at the scene. When the officers looked for then, they found only other police officers and thought the looters had fled.
Otto Bos, press secretary for the mayor, said Wilson was upset by the looting stories.
“We have been getting adverse reaction from all over the country, Bos said. “They are asking what kind of savages do we have in this city?â€
It was Bos, on behalf of Wilson, who asked the city manager’s office to look into the police accounts.
“It was an act so heinous that it makes you say to yourself, ‘My God, how could such savagery exist after a tragedy?’’’ he said, adding that the looting stories were in newspapers and on television throughout the world.
“Where the real damage is, in terms of the public image of the city and citizens, is outside the city,” said Bos, a former reporter. “After we correct that we have to work getting the story straight within our own city limits.â€
Bos may have a tough job ahead of him.
A national newsmagazine carried this paragraph describing the crash scene:
“Police say they saw one man trying to pry the upper dentures out of a corpse and dozens of others hunting for valuables in the carnage.â€
Joel said on Thursday, September 25, 2008, 22:59
I stopped by the crash site today(Sep. 25 2008) and remebered what I witnessed that day 30 years ago. I was 7 years old at the time and attended Central Elementary. That hot morning I had asked to go to the bathroom to get out of class of just for a little bit. I remember wasting time in the restroom, in no rush to get back to class(typical 7 yea rold). As I walked out Idecided to get a drink of water trying to waste a little more time. As I was in the middle of my drink I heard a boom in the sky and looked up right away. I didnt really know what the fireball in the sky was and never realized the extremeties of the event. It wasn’t until years later that I fully understood the full extent of the tragedy. I now live on one of the blocks that was affect by the crash and think about the events more often than not. I still find it haed to believe that I witnessed such an event. Really, the odds have to be pretty slim of being in that place at that time to see the mid air collision. It is wierd ,but no one else seemed to be around at the time. That is why I remember that day and pay tribute to the many people that passed away that hot early morning.
Maria said on Thursday, September 25, 2008, 23:00
I was 19 at the time. I remember hearing a loud sound and not knowing what it was. I then heard there was a PSA plane crash. I learned an old man and woman from our church were just married and they were on that flight . They were returning from their honeymoon and they were so happy. I was so sad to hear they lost their lives. I have been afraid of planes ever since that day. I think just being young and thinking of what those people must have gone through made an impression on me. I fly, but I do have panic attacks now. I was to fly this year but it is very hard for me. I will be driving this winter when I go on vacation instead. What’s ironic is at the time of this crash I wanted to be a flight attendant for PSA.
Joel said on Thursday, September 25, 2008, 23:02
I stopped by the crash site today(Sep. 25 2008) and remebered what I witnessed that day 30 years ago. I was 7 years old at the time and attended Central Elementary. That hot morning I had asked to go to the bathroom to get out of class of just for a little bit. I remember wasting time in the restroom, in no rush to get back to class(typical 7 yea rold). As I walked out Idecided to get a drink of water trying to waste a little more time. As I was in the middle of my drink I heard a boom in the sky and looked up right away. I didnt really know what the fireball in the sky was and never realized the extremeties of the event. It wasn’t until years later that I fully understood the full extent of the tragedy. I now live on one of the blocks that was affect by the crash and think about the events more often than not. I still find it hard to believe that I witnessed such an event. Really, the odds have to be pretty slim of being in that place at that time to see the mid air collision. It is wierd ,but no one else seemed to be around at the time. That is why I remember that day and pay tribute to the many people that passed away that hot early morning.
Anonymous said on Friday, September 26, 2008, 1:34
ELAINE, thank you for your kind words and for remembering those of us who worked in the recovery efforts on the ground that day. This site and the posters have been far from kind or appreciative in that regard, and personally, it makes me feel a bit sad. It was very rough day.Thank you for your thoughts.
Carol said on Friday, September 26, 2008, 8:00
My thoughts were with you all yesterday at the memorial. I wish I could have been there to meet everyone. I was not able to find anything via the internet, and am hoping that someone can put in a link on this site so that I can see pictures and read about yesterdays get together. I did view the link that showed the many pictures of the site 30 years ago. I saw the house I lived in at the time, the front was destroyed. Thanks so much, Carol
Trey153 said on Friday, September 26, 2008, 8:56
Carol—-> http://photos.signonsandiego.com/psa182-service
Carol said on Friday, September 26, 2008, 10:16
Thanks Trey for sending the link. It was good to be able to view the pictures and read the story. We will never forget.
Carol
Richard Tibbitts said on Friday, September 26, 2008, 10:22
I remember rather vividly the events of that morning. I was living in La Mesa with a roommate, who suddenly rushed in saying that a 747 had gone down. I told him that they didn’t normally land at Lindbergh Field, and what was he saying anyway? Of course I got up and took a look; even from there it was obvious that something very bad had happened. There was a large column of smoke rising into the sky and adding to the already considerable air pollution that day. Eventually we got more information about the crash, but that first glimpse of tragedy remains burned into my memory.
Interestingly, though I am a native San Diegan and had fond memories of flying on PSA, along with other family members, there were other connections as well. A friend of mine (whom I didn’t know at the time) told me later he was tripping on acid the night before in Ocean Beach, when suddenly he looked inland, toward the east, and he had a premonition that something terrible was about to happen.
Another friend of mine (incidentally also a long-time acquaintance of the person previously mentioned) said he was working for the county at the crash site in a freezer truck, into which all the human remains were being loaded. He said his biggest fear was that the door would close and leave him in the dark with all the body parts.
A third person, from whom I rented a room in Spring Valley years later, was a first-year teacher at St. Augustine High School when the collision occurred. The campus was used as a staging area for the emergency vehicles and personnel, as I recall.
Finally, a fourth person (closely acquainted with the first two people I mentioned) claimed that he had originally been booked on Flight 182 from Sacramento to San Diego to visit his son, but for some reason changed his mind and booked a flight the previous evening.
My girlfriend had been let go early from a restaurant because business was slow that morning, and decided to go thrift shopping in North Park on her way home. She was at the Salvation Army store on University Avenue, about a mile away, when the accident occurred. That close, the sound and the concussion were almost simultaneous; people thought it was perhaps a sonic boom, but after several minutes one of the cashiers came running in, screaming that her child was at school near the crash site. Then sirens were heard all over the area, and pandemonium erupted everywhere.
Paul Sebotka said on Friday, September 26, 2008, 12:31
I was in the Navy, a Petty Officer First Class at the time of this crash. That morning I was working at 32nd Street, teaching a course to some newbies. I was a CS or cook, usually. But in a prior rating I had done mortuary work and what we called “Bag, Tag, Zip, and Ship” in my earlist days in the Navy in the latter stages of the Vietnam War. I heard about the crash on the radio and it wasn’t but Noon that I was asked to supervise a small group of Seamen and a coupel PO3’s and go to the crash site to recover remains. When we got there the fires were just being finally extinguised and it was dreadfully hot. I’ll never forget the chaos of the mass of people around there milling about, yet there was also an eerie silence when we first got started. We worked up a grid zone along the south side of Dwight and the east side of Boundary. We were joined by a handful of police officers and we soon began walking off the grid. I was the right flanker and in charge of the walk-off. We had only gotten about ten seconds underway when the Seaman next to me stopped us and stooped to mark a charred left femur. We proceeded again and not ten seconds later we stopped again to mark a jaw bone. Ten seconds into the walk off we had yet another one, this time a middle-aged woman’s head and shoulders, severed just below the clavicles. I recall the woman’s hair as a pretty golden color and she wore pearl earrings. I felt so bad at the moment because her face was one of agonizing fear. Her mouth was wide open as though she had been screaming and her eyes were wide-open. Death was instant and there was her last moment, frozen in time. It took me years to get past this memory. To this day it is haunting, in fact. Most of the rest of the day we simply tagged small remains, a finger here, a toe there, some internal organs, and lot sof matted hair. That head was the worst of it, although we did encounter a man’s mid-section, severed about mid-thigh, and again about belly button level that made a couple of us somewhat ill. We received commendations later that Fall for our effort, ones we all wish we never had. It was a horrible day. I live in Seattle now, retired, and could not make the memorial. But I and my other “shippies” were there in spirit yesterday, no doubt. It was a day we were all proud to help as members of the US Navy, albeit quite sadly.
Smoke said on Friday, September 26, 2008, 12:35
Hey peeps, thanks for being cool and respecting my space. I saw you all out there yesterday and it was moving. It went real well for our neighborhood, better than 25 and 20, when folks were not nearly as many, but not as respectful. I hope you all found your peace yesterday.
TIKI said on Friday, September 26, 2008, 14:12
Hi Smoke- I was hoping to have the opportunity to meet you yesterday. I was there with my wife and was happy to introduce her to all my new friends from this site. I’am disappointed I wasn’t able to chat and shake your hand. Hopefully, you will stay involved with this site and at sometime have us all meet again for maybe a clam-bake on the sand. Mahalo,TIKI
Elaine said on Friday, September 26, 2008, 16:35
To Anonymous said on Friday, September 26, 2008, 1:34
One of the things I always worried about was how my sister was treated after her death. I wasn’t able to be there, but was nearby a day later after having to fly in from the east coast. More than anything I wanted to take care of and protect her and I am grateful to all who came to her aid. I know my sister suffered a horrible end to her life and that others cared is one of the few ways I was able to handle it. I went on to take care of others and that helped. So when I say I know something of what you did, I really do. I later married a pilot, it wasn’t easy. But 28 years later he is still here with me.
Beth said on Friday, September 26, 2008, 16:57
I appreciate everybody’s comments on this website. I have lived in Northpark in various locations for 20 years. I was not here when PSA crashed. For the last 9 years, I have lived right around the corner from the crash site. I cannot even imagine how horrific it would have been 30 years ago. Some years ago, I was at the park at end of Nile Street, and met a guy that had done a lot of research into the crash. He said that the open space on Nile Street (between Landis and Myrtle on the west side of the street) was purposefully left vacant after the crash. The owners never wanted to rebuild that area as a respect to the victims. It is really weird this open space, as I had always wondered that especially during the housing bubble and the mass of condo conversions and new construction that this large lot in the city remained vacant.
I saw all of you on the way to work yesterday and I can tell you I am very sorry that this terrible tragedy occurred.
Beth said on Friday, September 26, 2008, 17:00
Oops, I meant EAST side of Nile Street. (not west side as I stated in above post)
Bob said on Friday, September 26, 2008, 21:57
Hi Beth, I noticed that empty lot too yesterday. I found this picture of the crash site taken on the day of the tragedy. That lot on the left was empty back then too. It might be city owned property & nothing can be built on it. http://photos.signonsandiego.com/080920PSA/psa290292_025
shmouts said on Friday, September 26, 2008, 23:04
OK, AT THE MEMORIAL: Young woman, early to mid twenties dressed in black business suit with skirt. Black and white shoes, SMOKING HOT, I wanted to tell her my mom died in the crash just so we could hug.
Also, that lady wearing her PSA uniform was creepy, I don’t care what you say! I can’t believe that weird fucking wedge shaped 2 story house was at the crash site in 1978!!!!! It’s still there! that guy had a primo spot to witnes the .
Dicky said on Friday, September 26, 2008, 23:12
My ex wife, Mavis missed that flight in Sacramento. The bitch was late for everything.
Capt. Mc Feron almost saved me 3 years of alimony payments.
Bob said on Friday, September 26, 2008, 23:18
Dicky, that was completely inappropriate. I gotta say, it was also hilarious. Humor heals all wounds.
Neil said on Saturday, September 27, 2008, 14:16
The memorial ceramony for the passengers, crew and residents that perished back on September 25, 1978 turned out well. It was nice to be present Thursday morning to see many mourners from near and far come together to pay their respects. It seemed as though everybody that was there were like family. I wanted to personally thank all the residents in the area of Dwight and Nile for allowing us to hold the 30 year memorial in their neighborhood. To all those who lost friends & loved ones involved in the accident, know that they are with you in heart, mind & soul and their spirit will always shine. May God Bless you and be with you all.
Paul said on Saturday, September 27, 2008, 17:19
First of all, hello to everyone on this site. I’ve found all the previous posts
to be extremely informative, yet very sad/heartbreaking. I hope that all the ones who made it to the site on 9/25/08 recieved some type
of closure. I wanted to make it down there at 9:02 am that day, but couldnt…I did go down there
at 2pm.and saw the flowers on all the corners of Dwight and Nile..I put some flowers down
at the north-east corner of Dwight and Nile and said a prayer for all who died and for the Lord Jesus to comfort those that mourn.
VERY somber and solumn
moment,for me,indeed…..
On Sept. 25th 1978 ( A day Ill probably never forget), I was 19 yrs. old,
and working for Ayres construction co. My dad was the primary building designer. I went to work at 7 am that morning,and did my usual job,manual labor. at about 8:55, my superintendant came to get me for the 9 am ,15 min break. As we were walking out the front door,
I felt the ground shake. I thought at the time, it was an earthquake.
We figured a few mins later, that it must have been the planes impact. Well, we drove up the street to
the “roach-couch” ,and I bought some doughnuts and juice. It was about 9:05 am .I was standing
there, and someone said, ” Holy Sh#t…what the heck is that…” I looked over in the direction he was
pointing to(south,over a ridge ) towards Encinitas above La Costa ave(this was in Carlsbad
The ridge was aprox. 150-200 ft high,so it took about 8-10 mins before anyone could see the smoke.)
I saw 3 HUGE black mushroom clouds rising slowly into the atmosphere…I couldnt believe
my eyes. Finally, my superintendant went to the car and turned on the radio and found out it
was a plane crash…I was thinkin the whole time whatever that is, it dont look good..at all. I went home(a few blocks away) at 1230 and my parents were watching the reporting( 10 news)
of the crash and scene…it was unbelievable and extremely intense..the fact it was only 20-24 miles away.
I sat there transfixed watching for an hr,then went back to work until 330, where i came back and watched for most of
the afternoon and evening…what I saw that day on the news, left a deep mental scar and lasting impression on me..BIG TIME. Because of the fact most of it was taped(although the reporting in
the morning I believe was live) they were showing everything on the ground..and I mean EVERYTHING. it was the most horrific and qruesome site I have EVER seen. Ive been deeply afaid to fly ever since.I did manage to fly in 12-80 back east,
but on the way back to LAX,we hit turbo over kansas or col., and the plane literally droped aprox
1000-2000 ft in about 10 secs!! I thought and said”oh sh#t..this is it….were ALL GONNA DIE!!!!!
I thought the plane was goin down..for sure..without a doupt. Fortunately, the pilot regained control,
and we survived..but man,it was da#n hairy…when we got to L.A., me and my girlfriend literally kissed the ground, we were so stoked to be alive , and in one piece. I didnt fly anywhere for 25yrs.,
until jan. of 2006..thats how bad my fear was/is. I had to get two beers just to relax for the trip
to Chi-town.I also prayed alot and held on to the seat arms real tight..I was nervous and tense the whole time.The takeoff and landing was the worst part for me..Not sure if I’ll ever feel safe on a plane again.Ironically,in June-July of 78 I flew to europe and back.Had no problems..but it all changed 2 months later. Anyway, thats my story..sorry its so long. God bless all the poor souls that died that
day 30 yrs ago,and all who deeply mourn for their loss of their loved ones.I truly believe we will
all
see them in Heaven some day. Thank you to all connected to this site,for making it possible to post.I think its helped me alot. God Bless to all.Jesus LIVES!…and so do all the 144. Peace,Paul
TIKI said on Saturday, September 27, 2008, 18:20
I just wanted to say it was great meeting Carrie,Dano and Greg at the memorial on Thurs. I wish I had had more time to stay and reflect on things, but it turned out I had to get back up to Orange Cty. We need to plan a gathering in the near future, maybe at the beach so we can visit under happier circumstances. I’ll bring the steak and hamburgers! Mahalo,TIKI
Dano said on Saturday, September 27, 2008, 21:57
Good evening to all my friends , I feel so blessed to have gathered with all of you on Thursday morning and immerse myself in the comfort and compassion of so many wonderful people, Stories and tears were shared and I know we all left with a better sense of closure but more importantly ,,A renewed faith in love and kindness for each other, I wish I could have spent more time with many of you and perhaps we can all work that out and meet again. I spent the next day bringing my mothers ashes to her favorite beach in Del Mar swimming out past the surf line and let them go with a bunch of her favorite flowers. Then I went back to Coronado to celebrate my uncles 90th bday,, I felt the love of all of you with me and Pray you all feel mine as well. I do want to share this with all of you.. After I left North Park I went to the Aerospace museum and left flowers and a picture at the memorial plaques and met a man there who lost his dad on 182.. When he told who it was I realized I met his younger brother at Dwight and Nile earlier that morning. Neither of them knew what the other was doing that day. We sat and talked for almost an hour. We left as new friends and plan to keep in touch.. Only the hand of God could allow so much good to come from so much loss, pain and sorrow. I’m now safely back home in N Ca. and greatful for everything that God and my angel in heaven have given me this week . My cup truly runeth over !! God Bless All Of You.
Summer said on Saturday, September 27, 2008, 23:42
Hi all! This blog has meant a lot to me for the past four years. I was born in 1980 but my cousin was killed in the crash. When I went out to see my aunt jane in SD years ago, I asked to visit his grave but my aunt got very tense and left the room. My mother (her sister) told me that they did not get a body. So, I pulled the big, “put your foot your mouth.” I could never bring myself to ask my aunt, or my mother, what happened to the remains of my cousin. Does anybody know? I know this question was asked here before. I was wondering if there was a “mass grave” as suggested before.
Love, Summer
TIKI said on Sunday, September 28, 2008, 10:25
Hey Dano- You said it best about so much good coming from something so horrific. We as survivers ended up getting the shitty end of the stick that day, as all the souls involved moved on to a better place. Still, we should definately plan a happy survivor reunion at a central location so travelling would be fair for everyone that would like to attend. I will have some t-shirts made up with the PSA logo and the words ” Survivors of Flight 182 ” Anyway, it was a pleasure meeting everyone for a beautiful day considering the occasion. TIKI
anonymous said on Sunday, September 28, 2008, 15:06
Good idea TIKI. My question would be, how do you know what directions “everyone” is coming from, and given that, where might this “central location” be?
TIKI said on Sunday, September 28, 2008, 15:14
We would have to audit the location of everyone interested in meeting, then all agree on the location, TIKI
luckymom22 said on Monday, September 29, 2008, 2:38
Tanks to whoever posted the link that listed those who died on PSA flight 182. I hope it’s o.k. that I post them here. They are not forgotten.
I worked for SDSU’s Housing department in 1978. I remember that day. I went into work before 9:00 and didn’t hear of the crash until awhile after it had happened.. One of my co-workers smiled and joked with me that morning; I learned later that even as he joked with me, he had already learned of the crash, knew that his brother had been planning to take that flight and was waiting to hear if indeed his brother had taken itt. I also happened to also be in this co-workers’ office many weeks later when he received a long-awaited phone call confirming that they had finally been able to identify his brother’s remains using dental records. I believe that my co-worker and his brother also both knew Gail Shapiro very well. She sounds like she was an energetic, friendly and populr young woman.
Here are the names. We remember you and our families this week.
Victims of PSA crash
These are the people who died as a result of the crash of a PSA airliner and a small plane in North Park that day in 1978.
PSA passengers and crew:
Billy Adams, San Pedro
Judy Allen, Los Angeles
Don Ashcroft, Sacramento
Bryce Banner, Los Angeles
Daniel Lawrence Balson, Encino
Leonard Barr, Loomis
Mary Beard, Sacramento
Frank Becwar, Fair Oaks
Robert Benner, Thousand Oaks
Sue Benner, Thousand Oaks
David Bernard, Santa Monica
Paula Blake, Playa del Rey
Barbara Boisselle, Los Angeles
Karen Borzewski, San Diego
Charles Bren, Los Angeles
Ronald Henry Burkley, Manhattan Beach
Arnold Lee Califf, Poway
Joseph Reed Canavin, Andover, Mass.
Hood Cheney, Dallas
Lynn Cherry, San Diego
Pauleen Colarich, Concord
Martha J. Coleman, San Diego
Alberico Coluzzi, Los Angeles
Richard W. Conway, San Diego
Carol Cook, Rolling Hills
Christine Davie, Carlsbad
Lisa Denise Davis, Lakeside
Olga R. de Huante, San Diego
Timothy DeLuca, Aptos
Gerri Dixon, Los Angeles
Janet Dolson, Inglewood
James W. Dormer, San Diego
Jay Drotman, Santa Monica
John Dumas, Los Angeles
Kirk C. Dutton, Los Angeles
Amancio Elizaga, San Diego
Javier Escalante, Sacramento
Jonathon Falk, Los Angeles
Michael Fitzgerald, San Diego
Perry Flashman, Culver City
Kate Fons, San Diego
Gail Michele Forsyth, San Diego
Gary Fox, Culver City
Robert E. Fox, La Mesa
William Francis, Sacramento
James Gallagher, Bakersfield
Maureen Gallagher, Bakersfield
Jay Gilroy, San Francisco
Robert Guerrero, Sacramento
Jacob Joseph Gustinic, Marina Del Rey
Lewis Hayden, San Diego
Steve Henry, Sacramento
Richard Hight, Citrus Heights
Ric Horne, Glendale
Jack Irwin, Sacramento
Barbara Jackson, Los Angeles
Nellie Jackson, Sacramento
Andria Jacobson, Belmont Shores
Neil Howard Jagoba, Framingham, Mass.
George Johnson, Thousand Oaks
Lee H. Johnson, La Jolla
David L. Jolliffee, Los Angeles
Valerie Kantor, Pacific Palisades
Jimmie A. Kelly, Savannah, Ga.
Colleen A. Kepler, San Diego
Farrell Kimball, Sacramento
Allan Lebow, Los Angeles
Wayne Allen Levin, Beverly Hills
Robert Levine, San Diego
David Loeb, Santa Monica
Rosalia Lococa, Santee;
Earl Lohnes, Niantic, Conn.
Brian T. MacLean, San Diego
Jesus Macias, Hawthorne
Gil A. Marcoux, San Diego
Andrew Martin, Malibu
Louise T. Martin, San Diego
Thomas Masker, Monterey
Debbi McCarthy, Vista
James F. McFeron, Escondido
Joseph McMasters, Sacramento
Joann Metzler, Thunder Bay, Ontario, Canada
Charles Miller, Davis
Samuel Molinaro, El Cajon
Gary Moore, Sacramento
Whilhelmina Mottola, San Diego
Kenji Nakanishi, Santa Monica
Spencer B. Nelson, Escondido
Betty Nunn, Hayward
Robert Oshiro, Sacramento
Lynn Owens, Coronado
Gary Patterson, Highlands
Bernard Perez, Shingle Springs
Jeffrey J. Pesses, Los Angeles
Burt Pierce, Rancho Palos Verdes
Richard Plaskoff, Los Angeles
Anthony Poli, San Diego
Gary Ponnells, Citrus Heights
Muhamed Quaffae, Alshwah, Kuwait
Bob Ramirez, Lennox
Leo Reeder, Pacific Palisades
Ronnie Resnick, Los Angeles
Francis Resnick, Los Angeles
Joseph Rigney, Downey
Randy Ryckman, Santa Monica
Don C. St. Germain, San Diego
George Saunders, Rancho Palos Verdes
Maria C. Scavia, La Mesa
Dave Schmidt, Sacramento
Ralph Schuerler, Sacramento
Bennett Schwartz, Culver City
James Seaman, Manhattan Beach
Nerene Fay Seaton, Bakersfield
Gail Lynn Shapiro, San Diego
Robert Sinclair Silver, Marina Del Rey
Kirt Smith, Palo Alto
Walter Smith, Citrus Heights
Roger Smith, Waukesha, Wis.
Herb L. Stewart, Monterey
Jim Stinnett, Los Angeles
Michael Sulit, Del Mar
James Taggart, Palos Verdes
Azmi David Taha, Vista
Allen Tetelman, Los Angeles
Maxine Thweatt, Manhattan Beach
Daniel Bruce Urdahl, San Diego
Martin J. Wahne, San Diego
Roger W. Walsh, Solana Beach
William White, Lakeside
Kevin Wholey, Santa Monica
Jane Whyte-Spitz, Bonita
Jeff Wilson, Los Angeles
Lawrence Wilson, Sacramento
Tom Womack, El Cajon
Dee Anne Young, El Cajon
On board the Cessna:
David Lee Boswell, Camp Pendleton
Martin Kazy Jr., San Diego
On the ground:
Amy Bolick, San Diego
Nancy Stout, San Diego
Robert Stout, San Diego
Lela Todd, San Diego
Derek Walker, San Diego
Sherry Walker, San Diego
Darlene Watkins, San Diego
Dano said on Monday, September 29, 2008, 15:19
Luckymom22.. Nice of you to take the time to post all the names of those lost . I’m not sure how to take the description of your co-workers demeanor after learning of the crash and knowing his brother was most likely on the plane. I know when I found out about the crash and was then told Gail was on it I fell to my knees and cried. My heart has been broken ever since. She was a very special young lady and even though my life moved on. I will NEVER EVER forget her !!. It was very healing to release a dove in her honor last week. It was also really nice to chat with a few coworkers who remembered her. God Bless All
Shree Lundstahl said on Monday, September 29, 2008, 22:05
I saw this plane crash. I was researching the coverage of the 30th Anniversary when I stumbled upon this blog. This plane went right over the top of Southbound I-805 between El Cajon Blvd and just to the South of University as it turned in. I was in NB I-805 in the slow lane, slowing down even more as I was looking for the El Cajon Blvd exit. I missed the mid-air contact but saw the PSA jet, wing aflame, turn right in and head my way as the crumpled junk left of the small plane just dropped straight down. I thought it was part of the PSA jet honestly. It looked like the PSA jet was aiming for I-805 and to this day, I think that is what was happening. I started to accelerate quickly to get out of the way and then watched as the plane turned more toward the west, sort of corkscrewed is more like it, and then it went in and there was a tremendous explosion and smoke billowed up. I was so shocked I just kept driving north on I-805, shaking and sobbing, driving slowly all the way to the Ruffin Road exit! I pulled off there and just sat and shook and sobbed and then thought to turn on the radio and sure enough there was the first reports coming in and so I just sat there and listened for what must’ve been an hour before I turned around and headed back, but then I decided to exit at Friar’s Road and go all the way around to I-5 to get home in Chula. I can recall the smoke billowing out toward downtown and over the Bay. It was the single most frightening thing I have ever seen. I am so glad there is this blog for people to remember and console each other.
Sheryl Duke said on Tuesday, September 30, 2008, 14:02
Dano-Just wanted to thank you for remembering my sister, Gale Shapiro. Our family still miss her tremendously and think of her daily. She was a GREAT Big SISTER, and daughter. I lost my big sister and best friend on that day. Sheryl
James said on Tuesday, September 30, 2008, 14:36
I was a flight attendant for PSA shortly after the crash, in 1979, for 6 months. My sister was a PSA F/A for almost 20 years and was, thank God, not on 182. There was panic in our family for a couple of hours while we waited for the official news as to who was on board and if she was OK.
As a junior flight attendant reservist, I had to work the hectic weekend shifts, and worked the same early Monday morning Sacramento/LA/San Diego flight many times. I, as well as other flight attendants, were keenly aware of what had happened that last leg into Lindbergh (heading east first, then turning west for the final approach), and this made the last 10 minutes or so of the flight tense. During the brief time I was at PSA afterwards, and even though life and business went on there, I felt the somberness that hung over the employees. As well as to my sister, my heart goes out to each and every one of them, and hope that now, 30 years later, they can find some peace and closure to this horrible tragedy.
Darren said on Wednesday, October 1, 2008, 1:38
God bless all the souls on board #182 (N533PS), the Cessna (N7711G), those on the ground, and all the families and loved ones, first responders, and folks affected by 25-SEPT 1978. Myself, I was scheduled that morning to solo a Cessna to Los Angeles (first long solo) from Gillespie Airport, El Cajon.. I was 17 years old. I learned of the crash by a phone call from a best friend’s mom, she was crying terribly, who thought I was the piloting the Cessna that collided with PSA. Her husband was a lead mechanic for PSA. I knew one members on the flight deck, he was deadheading which is a term pilots use for non-revenue passengers as there were many PSA employees riding #182. I have studied aviation safety/aircraft accidents for years, and studied the NTSB’s report on #182 plus attended the hearings they had prior to final report. Although the flight crew of PSA #182 received fault, I have always thought it was a tragic accident that could have happened to any flight crew, even professionals and great aviators like the cockpit crew of #182. I have flown and had air traffic control advise me of “traffic 2:00… …” and I see something in my 1:00 position and assumed it was my subject traffic only to then see another airplane appear. PSA #182’s flight crew likely saw other traffic and thought it was their conflict Cessna. There was also cockpit conversation with their believe they passed the Cessna. I believe the cause of the accident more attributable to a system failure, versus pilot failure (as the #182 captain was blamed because he failed to maintain visual separation on Cessna N7711G…the “see and avoid” concept is outdated especially with closure speeds like PSA had on the Cessna). The other discussions and laughter is common (even with the cockpit non-essential conversation “sterile” rule under 10,000 feet,) with pilots just as doctors tell jokes or discuss their life insurance while conducting brain surgery. I hope this helps to clarify some. Today, this kind of accident would be much less likely because of TCAS or Traffic Collision Avoidance System, which is an expensive device all airliners now have to avoid collisions. Darren avintel777@hotmail.com
TIKI said on Wednesday, October 1, 2008, 10:10
Sheryl- I didn’t personally know your sister, but I have spoken with a couple folks from this site about her, including Dano. Everyone said great things about Gale and how her personality sparkled. I would’ve predicted that Dano would now be your brother-in-law, and he is equally a awesome dude. I only met him last week, but I consider him a ” brother from another mother.” Gale and my previous wife, also a flight attendant on board that day, are looking down on us right now knowing that their spirit lives on through us. Mahalo TIKI
ES said on Wednesday, October 1, 2008, 10:39
I am a reporter writing a story about the use of the PSA crash photo to promote a local proposition. If you are a survivor/family member of victims of PSA 182, please call me as soon as possible. Thank you. 760-740-3511. Tell me what you think. http://www.regionalfireplan.com/index.php?page=1
Paul said on Wednesday, October 1, 2008, 14:20
From what I’ve read, PSA182 came down the coastline then went over MV to the east and then banked
to the right to desend the 3 miles to LF. When it was banking and lowering its right wing, that was
when the collision occured.So…I believe the direction was north-east,because of the fact 172
crashed NE of PSA-182.
Darren said on Wednesday, October 1, 2008, 15:04
I wanted to append my earlier post for some of those that asked about the controllability of PSA #182 (N533PS), a 727-200 series. When #182 impacted the Cessna 172, a large section of the leading edge of the wing from #182 was damaged. I cannot recall if the flight crew had already extended flaps/slats (I believe they did), so those leading edge devices (called slats) were also greatly damaged. Basically what you had was an asymmetric lift situation that would then cause the B727 to want to roll. It is clear from the famous photo, that the flight crew were applying counter-controls to the developing roll and pitch down, Once your bank angle goes to the kind of degrees of roll that #182 had, the load factor required to maintain altitude would have caused a stall speed much higher than a typical roll. Without leading edge slats on one side, that wing would have stalled first causing even more roll. The cockpit voice recordings indicate the stall warning/stick shaker had activated, fairly early on in the short time between the mid-air and ground impact. Furthermore, the active fire on the starboard wing, caused by severed fuel lines, could have also disrupted the smooth airflow over the wing, which is required for lift production. An old timer pilot once told me, if you have a fire like #182 had on the wing, you probably won’t fly. Even if the wing had not been so damaged, it is unlikely with that fuel fed fire, that #182 could have even made Lindbergh’s runway 27 for safe landing, without a structural compromise of the wing.
Another poster said something about a hydraulic failure causing control malfunction, but it is clear from the photos that PSA #182’s cockpit crew still had control authority of the elevator (pitch) and ailerons (roll) based on the counter-control displacement seen in the photos. And another poster said something about engine failure, one engine, even two (assuming foreign object debris was ingested by engines #3 and #2) , could fail and with one remaining engine, the 727 was in an advantage to successfully land on only 1/3 engines. There was probably an engine issue on #3, as it appeared in the photos that possibly a stream of smoke was trailing that engine which might have had compressor stalls or failure due to objects ingested (its own parts from the 727 and possibly Cessna objects). With the newer flight data recorders of today, investigators would have known that from the NTSB’s flight and cockpit voice recorder laboratory,
The NTSB ruled in their final report “analysis” section, that most likely PSA #182 was not controllable by the pilots post mid-air.
Darren
e-mail: avintel777@hotmail.com
Carrie said on Wednesday, October 1, 2008, 15:09
SD Native:
Your sympathy sounds sincere for those who suffered terrible loss on that day, however, I find it hard to believe that you could follow such kind words with such detailed description of the bodies on the ground. Honestly, I have seen the pictures you speak of and the “peach -colored” objects around the tree look like nothing more than rocks someone placed around their tree for decor purposes. Even if I am wrong, and you are right, I see no need to over-dramatize the details in the photos. I’m sure there are horrible pictures on file with certain governing agencies that will never be published for all eyes to see and rightfully so.
I admit I had the same curiosity myself before attending the memorial last week, but I was put in a seriously sober place when I looked into the eyes of people who loved and cared for these victims.I know without a doubt that it is a challenge to just put out of their minds the horrible details of their loved ones last moments and just remember their smiling faces and the way they lived.
I think any photos that have been published have been done so with extreme taste and dignity as to not dishonor the dead. If there are photos of any other nature being circulated than shame on the distributor. Enough is enough.
Sheryl Duke said on Wednesday, October 1, 2008, 16:02
Dano-How did you know my sister, Gale Shapiro.
Sheryl
TIKI said on Wednesday, October 1, 2008, 16:06
Thank you for your previous words Carrie. I wasn’t going to say anything for the sake of peoples feelings, but hearing about the head of ” a very pretty woman, possibly a stewardess ” made me hope it wasn’t my honey Lynn. I would hate to have my old lovers face critiqued from the inside of a transparent bag. Excuse me while deal with that for awhile. Mahalo,TIKI
Darren said on Wednesday, October 1, 2008, 16:34
This is a reply to ^SD Native^ above, as to asking about direction of travel of PSA #182 (N533PS), a Boeing 727-214. The 727 was downwind for Lindbergh’s runway 27 (270 degrees due west) and had accepted a then-common “visual approach” landing clearance (I’ll come back to this in a moment). PSA#182’s heading (magnetic direction) would be opposite of
the runway, so about 090 degrees or due east heading for the Cessna. The Cessna was climbing on
a heading of about 070 if I recall, a 20 degrees difference. That is why the Cessna
pilots did not see the 727, it was directly behind and above them, and they were
erroneously advised by San Diego Approach Control (now SoCal), that the 727 had them
in-sight. In fact, I believe the PSA crew was either looking at other traffic or thought
they’d passed Cessna N7711G (12:00 conflict traffic). When the mid-air occurred, the
starboard or right wing of the 727 was severely damaged (see my earlier post) , and PSA #182 started an
uncommanded right turn and the nose fell through because of G-loading/stall. I believe the 727
may have almost come around to probably a 200 or 220 degree (southwest) direction when it
impacted the ground. I am sure investigators and the flight data recorder have those very exact details that I cannot recall fully from memory.
PSA #182 accepted a visual approach landing clearance and was advised to “maintain visual separation” from the Cessna. That is, if they in fact had the right Cessna or airplane in sight (recall there was a Grumman TR-2 or Tiger in area too, at a distance though). The fact those visual approach clearances were commonly issued, was really a weakness in the entire system, thus why I do not believe the PSA flight crew should have been fully faulted, if at all, for a system weakness. Now days, those common visual approaches are not standard, the positive control of all air traffic (radar/radio control by air traffic controllers) is required with the airspace around San Diego. San Diego in 1978 had no TCA (Terminal Control Area) like big cities of L.A., Chicago, New York, etc.. San Diego had a TCA not too long after the PSA #182 accident. And now we also have TCAS which is a electronic warning system that not only alerts the crew of other traffic (as long as that other traffic has their transponder on), but also provides a ‘resolution’ to the conflict, like “DESCEND LEFT”. So there is much more protection in the skies against mid-air collisions, especially with airliners, than in 1978.
I do not believe anyone on the ground would/could have seen any activity from the cockpit. If anyone was that close, they would have been killed, or ran so fast they would not be able to be close enough to see any “frantic activity.”
A poster was somewhat critical of ^SD Native^ about descriptions of what might or might not have appeared, graphically, in some news on-line photos. Everyone tries to assimilate what happened that day in different ways. It would also be very easy to read through some of the details in this entire blog and say “why would people even bring this up?” and I thought too, at first, maybe it was insensitive to family/friends of victims. However, what is the difference between the graphic descriptions in written form here, and any photos? The conclusions/outcomes are the same. I believe many of the posters here, even if providing graphic detail, are doing so to share as to understand, as to eventually have closure. I am thankful I did not have to be there that day, like many neighbors or first-responders.
Sincerely…Darren
e-mail: avintel777@hotmail.com
As to another poster, yes, then channel 39 (now 7/39 KNSD) had film of the Cessna spinning to the ground prior to impact. I was surprised they did not pull that from their own archieves last week during there extensive revisit of PSA #182.
Dano said on Wednesday, October 1, 2008, 19:50
Hello Sheryl, First off let me say how sad and happy I’am that I finally get to meet one of Gale’s family sort of. Our short friendship never got far enough for me to meet you all personally. Oh how I wish things could have been different. I met your sister in late May 78 on a flight from San Jose to SD. No need to go into why I would want to flirt with her and ask her for a date. Anyone who met her would understand. She was very nice about it but declined. Anyway, My mom was good friends with the wife of a PSA captain named Forrest Knudsen and thier daughter was a PSA FA. I think her name was Megan.Two days after I met your sister on the flight I got invited to Megan’s bday party and there was Gale. She saw me and laughed that I was stalking her. I took the opportunity to properly introduce myself and we started a very heartwarming friendship that night. I lived in Santa Cruz and was getting ready to join the CHP soon. I was coming down every other week or so to help my parents get a boat they had docked at shelter island marina ready for sale. When I was in town and our schedules worked out we would get together and meet for breakfast, lunch or dinner depending on her work world usually at the Boll Weevil or Bali Hai and sometimes she and or friends would come over to the marina and hang out on the boat for awhile. I was honest with Gail about the fact that I would have no choice about were the CHP would send me upon graduation so we kept our feelings in check. I ended up in Oakland but I can honestly say had that terrible day never happened and Gale would have still been single I would have transferred as close to San Diego as I could in a heartbeat !! She truly made an indelible impression on me and I always found myself looking for those same qualities in the ladies I met from the day I met Gale to this day. Few have ever come close. My Bro Tiki payed me the nicest complement this man could ever receive. To be married to your sister would have been heaven on earth. God knows I’m willing to wait. So Sheryl, that’s how I knew Gale, That’s how I remember her , That’s why I honor her life, Believe me when I tell you Gale truly my angel in heaven. I was blessed to know her even for just a few months. I will totally understand if you never heard of me. Gale had a ton of friends and I will be the to say you never have to many friends. If you care to stay in touch and I hope you do. Please e-mail me at Daniel_Barnes@dot.ca.gov. God Bless you and your family Sheryl for you have all been in my prayers for many years. God Bless All
Dano said on Wednesday, October 1, 2008, 20:08
I guess we cannot expect eveyone to understand how hard it really is to overread the gore stories so we can find the posts that really mean something to all us us who lost big time that day. Should we start a different blog so we could edit this stuff ??.. I can handle it but i know some can’t and it is very hurtful..I I have to back my bro Tiki when people post junk about about bagged body parts. Remember it could be you someday ..or even worse..somebody you loved !!
James said on Wednesday, October 1, 2008, 20:26
All, here’s a PSA memorial link http://www.jetpsa.com/memorial/memorial.html Check out the whole site, it’s pretty cool. Talk about memories…
SD Native said on Wednesday, October 1, 2008, 23:08
Dear Carrie, Tiki, and Dano, I am very sorry that my first post has upset you. That certainly was not my intention, and I apologize for offending you. I cannot and do not pretend to know the sorrow you who knew people on that plane must feel to this day. However, reading back through the more than 370 messages that were posted before mine, there are plenty that describe details in just as graphic a manner. The difference in your reactions to my post and the many graphic ones before it seems to be last week’s 30th anniversary. From your reactions, it seems that it was okay to post graphic details before last week’s anniversary, but not okay to post any since. I found this blog only yesterday, and of all the research I’ve been doing lately on the Net, this blog seems to be the one place where people have been able to freely discuss what they witnessed that day. If I had found this blog before last week’s anniversary, I would still have posted the same message.
Carrie, regarding your statement, “I have seen the pictures you speak of and the ‘peach -colored’ objects around the tree look like nothing more than rocks someone placed around their tree for decor purposes.” Do you really believe, that in all that mayhem and fire, with the burned fence and tree clearly showing in those photos, that those objects were decorative rocks? They are not, and the reason I am sure of it is precisely because of the Polaroid photo I saw of the man who had hit the fence. I recognized the “peach-colored objects” in the SDUT photo because they are the same color as burned arm of the man I saw in the Polaroid. Tiki, I don’t know if the woman whose head was outlined in the plastic bag was in fact a stewardess (which is why I said “possibly”) or if she was your honey Lynn. I pray not. But from the photo I saw, whoever she was, was a very attractive woman.I only posted on this blog to share my observations of that day, as so many others have done. I never intended to hurt anyone’s feelings. But, as a previous blogger said, “It is what it is”–and that day wasn’t pretty, and there’s no getting around that fact. God bless you all.
SD Native said on Wednesday, October 1, 2008, 23:16
Darren, regarding the crash trajectory, the following link contains a diagram showing how PSA 182 fell relative to San Diego streets: http://www.flickr.com/photos/60726851@N00/235612842/ . However, it doesn’t tell how the plane actually impacted or dispersed into the neighborhood.
SD Native said on Wednesday, October 1, 2008, 23:22
Here is a link to the PSA 182 NTSB accident report: http://www.am600kogo.com/cc-common/mlib/670/09/670_1222212634.pdf.
TIKI said on Thursday, October 2, 2008, 2:30
SD Native- No worries dude. It can’t be helped that regarding your post and the others before yours, that when I read a particularly vivid description of human remains, I automatically wonder, then pray it’s not my honey. To be honest with you, the two photos of the plane going in was far worse- wondering where the two FAs I knew were as the shutter clicked. Knowing my baby, she was probably comforting one of the terrified passengers. Anyway, I know your relating of what you saw that tragic day was not meant to purposely upset or harm anyone. As I said- No worries. Mahalo, TIKI
Dano said on Thursday, October 2, 2008, 6:40
Tiki my man ..you need to go to bed earlier !! were not as young as we were !! LOL.. Yeah your right ..Guess we need to let people express themselves as they see fit ..Truly , the pics of the plane going down are still the hardest for me to look at because everyone was still alive. And like Tiki, I had to wonder what my dear friend was doing , feeling. Was she trying to use all the training she had just learned to help others .. there was so little time thank goodness and then the glory of being in heaven. I just hope I believe enough and live decent enough to get there myself someday. I know Gale knows my parents there now and they met her before and knew how I felt about her. Time to take on another day on this mean ol earth. God Bless All
Carrie said on Thursday, October 2, 2008, 8:28
SD Native:
I must apologize for my reaction to your post. It is true that before the memorial last week, this was more like a history lesson I had read about in school. But after the memorial it became as real as if I had spoken to Jackie Kennedy after her husband was shot or threw crates of tea off the dock myself in Boston. I hope this makes sense. As to the details in the pictures, I’ll just leave everyone to see what they will, be it true or not and will not turn it into a debate. It is never my intention to offend anyone as I know this of you also. Keep on Keepin’ on.
James said on Thursday, October 2, 2008, 12:04
Darren and SD native, if you look at the aerial photos of the crash site you can plainly see the debris pattern running from , roughly speaking, northeast to southwest. Looking in a westerly direction from the direction of 805, the plane hit about 30 feet to the right of Dwight St., the debris field spreading across the intersection of Dwight and Nile, and on towards Boundary St. The group of houses on the south side of Dwight were right in the plane’s path.
The only good that happened that day was the fall from the Cessna collision to ground was quick for the souls on board those two planes. I can’t even imagine what they endured those few seconds. God bless them and their families and loved ones.
Meggie said on Thursday, October 2, 2008, 12:24
You are individually and collectively such impressive folks. This topic is so gut wrenchingly sad, yet even through disagreements you all manage to handle this with class and dignity. Not only does my heart hurt for each of you for the loss of those you loved…but I’m really proud of all of you as well. Tiki, Carrie, Sheryl, Dano, SD Native, et al – you are the perfect example of “good people” and what is still right in this world.
Take care, be well and know that even though I don’t know any of you personally, I am keeping all of you in my thoughts and prayers. Meggie
SD Native said on Thursday, October 2, 2008, 14:14
My thanks to Dano, Carrie and Tiki for graciously accepting my apology. James, thank you for explaining the crash trajectory into the neighborhood; you gave just the details I needed to know (e.g., looking westerly from I-805; northeast to southwest trajetory.) I had had a totally different picture in my mind about how it happened prior to this; I thought the plane had come down from the southeast. Now I finally understand it. Again, my thanks and blessings to you all.
Darren said on Thursday, October 2, 2008, 18:05
Give it up Darren!! Get a life!
Dano said on Thursday, October 2, 2008, 20:49
Tonight I feel compelled to personally thank Joe Crawford for starting this blog. Through it I have made some new friends that have truly touched my heart and given me a renewed faith in humanity. I’m still in a incredible state of greatfulness for all that has come from this blog. Most especially the recent discovery for Sheryl ,Gale Shapiro’s sister and I. Without this blog we may have never connected. We have already shared some cherished memories and I pray it will continue till I take my last breath on this earth and join her sister in heaven. Thank You Joe ..I hope God has a special place in heaven for you. God Bless All
Carrie said on Thursday, October 2, 2008, 23:03
Maggie-
It is the small moments we take to lift up a stranger as you just did that is still right and good in this world.You are a light.
I send a message to all of you who read this blog, but you may be to hurt and/or angry by this incident to write about your experience/ and or loss: You are invited to embrace and be embraced. There is never a better time than now. God Bless everyone.
Joe Crawford said on Friday, October 3, 2008, 9:50
Dano, and to all who have shared their insights and stories and remembrances here, it is *you* I am thankful for. Take care, all.
TIKI said on Friday, October 3, 2008, 18:07
Meggie, Thank you for your positive inputs here on this site. You are officially invited to our beach party/luau. I serious about trying to get those that want to get together again a fun place where we can reminice either as individuals or full families. We are all good people with a common thread. Joe, you are invited too. Mahalo,TIKI
TIKI said on Friday, October 3, 2008, 19:04
Hey Dano- LMFAO at your remark about getting to bed earlier and being “older” You hit the nail on the head my friend. My spine looks like a piece of bamboo, but I hadn’t planned on living this long. Too many roll-overs on the track and hitting the bottom when wiping out in the swells. Oh well, what can I do. Sometimes I look like I’ve been shot with a shitpistol. Have a good weekend brother, Mahalo,TIKI
TIKI said on Friday, October 3, 2008, 19:22
Darren- You seem ontop of aviation and I wanted to know your thoughts on the following. I’ve spoke to many friends that have piloted everything from Lear jets to F4 Phantoms to 727’s. They felt that had the accident occured at a higher altitude, it may have been able to make a controlled yet scary landing. Due to the fact it was at such a low altitude, added with the airspeed turned way back plus the landing gear down, it was just too squirrelly to handle. The damage is done, of course, but it made perfect sense to me. I look forward to your opinion, Mahalo,TIKI
Darren said on Friday, October 3, 2008, 19:36
Someone above who is not truthful enough to state their name, used my name and then said “get a life!” I don’t know if you were drunk and had nothing better to do, but try contributing something of value instead of doing what too many bloggers do, resort to uncivil childlike behavior. I really have no clue as to why, I’ve only tried to contribute some useful and technical information here. My guess is someone did not like the fact I disagree with the NTSB findings and putting most blame on the PSA flight crew. As I stated, I believe that it was an overall system breakdown that could not be blamed on the PSA crew (nor the Cessna, nor the controllers). It is frustrating to me to see folks still say it was the Cessna pilots fault, as much as it disturbs me to hear/read folks say the PSA cockpit crew were “careless” or “unprofessional.” When I see those statements, I know that person has not flown in the system especially in 1978.
The problem, by finding the system wrong, the lawyers would have had more targets. Speaking of, does anyone know how much damages PSA paid out on this?
Carrie said on Friday, October 3, 2008, 20:14
I agree Darren. Your technical input is certainly valued in my opinion. I mean, how many of us have been pilots?
About the blame- It reminds me of “The Perfect Storm.” A tragic ending it was, but 3 different storms, each with their own contributions. Was one storm more to blame than the other? I respect the NTSB and their findings, but I also have questions in my head about the “details” ya’ know.
On another note. I found an article that was published in the San Diego Union titled “A Point In Space And Time.” It is an account of the day before and the day of the accident with details taken from actual witnesses who were the last to be in contact with the victims. It helped me to know these people more. For so long only the crew of PSA were known. This lets you know of others who sadly perished that day. I admit it is sad and fulfilling at the same time. I was depressed after reading it but that gave way to more understanding, which cleared the way for more peace.
I don’t suggest reading it unless you have received a good measure of healing from this event. It is without the gory details and just a greater revelation of what everyone lost that day. A terrible waste of such dynamic, talented and bright futures. May God rest their souls.
To read the article-http://www.writeoutsource.com/docs/A_Point_in_Space_and_Time.pdf
Let me know what you think of it. Please, remember if you disagree, please do it with maturity and respect.
Darren said on Saturday, October 4, 2008, 1:05
Hi Carrie (et al),
Thank you for your kind words above. I have some sensitivity towards people who hijack others names/handles, and then launch without civility or courtesy, insults on others, and then often leave the scene (hit & run bloggers). Oh well. Thanks again. I really want to thank you tremendously for the reference to the article by Michael Grant. I had some problems with the link you provided by cutting & pasting in my browser. IT could be on my side. What I ended up doing, was going in Google and typing in “michael grant article on PSA#182″ and your referenced article A POINT IN SPACE AND TIME came up as at the top, and I was able to download to my drive and open with Adobe Acrobat. I will go read that now. In a strange way, everyone on-board #182 and also the Cessna, their lives in mysterious ways all converged. Small twists and turns, choices, brought them together on that most tragic and fateful day. It reminds me of one of my favorite books across many categories I read, by an ex-airline pilot and accomplished author: ERNEST GANN. The book is now a classic, entitled FATE IS THE HUNTER. I read it before PSA #182. One of the first chapters talks about a near-miss in the fog/clouds, and how the pilots heard the engines of the other airplane. Being that I was supposed to do my first long solo flight that day (25-SEPT 1978) in a Cessna, and that I a